Baltimore State's Attorney: Freddie Gray's death was a homicide, charges filed against all 6 officers


#1

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#2

If a civilian killed someone while torturing them, would it be second degree murder?


#3

I don’t think so based on my limited knowledge. First degree would suggest they planned an assault on Mr. Gray.


#4

If a civilian killed someone while torturing them

CITIZEN

Everybody involved here was acting as a civilian.


#5

As much hope that I have that justice prevails, my thoughts reflect on Rodney King, where there was video but still an acquittal.

Best of luck to Baltimore and the area in the times ahead. May peace prevail and the police and community find trust in each other.


#6

Citizen implies a person entitled to vote, and to engage in certain other interactions with the state There still exists a broader class of individuals who are nonetheless entitled to a set ofcertain basic rights simply by virtue of being human, regardless of whether they are a citizen or subject of a that state.


#7

Which other armed forces would you consider civilians?


#8

Good luck getting convictions. The news that came out yesterday that he may have been banging his own head in the back of the van might be enough to establish reasonable doubt. The prosecutors are going to have a tough time proving anything.


#9

I don’t expect this to result in convictions for any of these people. This is the American “justice” system you’re talking about here.


#10

I feel both elated and disgusted. My thoughts are revolving around trying to remember all of this was done by human beings and systems made by us of us for us.

I can’t help but read this headline and have the “look for the people helping” and finally be able to catch my breathe on this story.


#11

Any of them who are subject to civil law instead of military law are civilians.


#12

Geez, let’s enjoy one morsel of a positive development, shall we? Yes, we are all too aware of justice derailed but christ, is jaded the new edgy?


#13

But they aren’t subject to the same civil law as actual civilian civilians are. Often, they are above the law, and the rest of the time, they have formal and informal protections that actual civilian civilians do not.


#14

Let’s not dismiss the courage of Marilyn Mosby because of the history of unsatisfactory cases. This is in fact progress.


#15

You may mean it as a reference to very real problems, but it looks dangerously close to buying into their juvenile make-believe games.


#16

We can’t address systemic problems unless we can talk about these problems. Pretending that the police are never above the law, and are subject to the same laws as actual civilian civilians, pretending that racism doesn’t exist, pretending that ableism doesn’t exist, etc. all get in the way of talking about these problems.


#17

Were it not for the excerpt, I would have thought “depraved heart murder” to be an invention of a touchy-feely journalist. Something like “depraved mind murder” seems more appropriate.


#18

Sure we should talk about it. However no amount of crime and being above the law turns a cop into a soldier, no matter how much of hard-on the idea of taking on that mantle gives some cops.


#19

Sounds like a start…


#20

Yes, they are indeed subject to the same system of justice that non-cops are, if only a subset at times. Military has the UCMJ, an entirely separate set of laws that police and citizens alike are not subject.