Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2019/05/12/batman-dark-knight-returns-iss.html
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[Not particularly relevant… just had Tick on my mind.]
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Hmmm… Interesting, but I think it wouldn’t have been amiss to mention fascism somewhere in this commentary.
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Miller is an interesting writer. The black and white art definitively borne out in Sin City is awesome.
But his repetitive lines of clothing wrinkles and face wrinkles is bordering on Rob Liefeld feet-level of terrible details.
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Watching those again. Did to know Liz Vassey is in the new one?
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@CarlMud - " bordering on Rob Liefeld feet-level of terrible details."
…but… not.
I mean: he borders on a lot of things. And Frank Miller himself might be a terrible person. I don’t know. So were/are a lot of artists and writers and musicians and everyone else. But i can’t judge this on those things. Because this is a great piece of literature.
I read a lot of comics back in the late 80s and early 90s. It was a good time. But this one always held up in a way that all the others didn’t. Sin City, Hard Boiled, everything that came after… it never quite (to me) held up to this. This is, by far, Frank Miller’s masterpiece. Year One was pretty good comparatively. But this is great.
It’s a story of the 80s cold war. It’s a story of an aging man who is a caricature of himself. it’s ugly and misanthropic and uncomfortable.
On top of all of that, it has a narrative style that was unique for the time. its not Citizen Kane but Citizen Kane is a classic (even if it’s just a mediocre movie at its heart) because there were film making techniques that had never been done before. The same is true with this.
It’s one of the greatest graphic novels of all time.
[changemymind.jpg]
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Oh yeah this and Watchmen… honestly I still don’t think any comic graphic novel has ever surpassed either of them.
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Frank lost his marbles and a great deal of his talent along the way, but his early work - DARK KNIGHT, YEAR ONE, BORN AGAIN - is truly incredible. In somewhat of a minority, but I think RONIN is his masterpiece.
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My favorite of Miller’s work is Ronin
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I suppose we are all basic comic consumers, but I agree both of those two probably the best critical works in the genre. As far as a limited series goes.
I also liked Ronin. And Electrka the Assassin.
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I did not! I’m not sure if I have heard Lobstercules speak yet, though. We’re just a few episodes into s2. Love the Tick.
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Yeah, I think some of the weaker aspects of the book get amplified by the caricature of himself that Miller became but holy shit is it a great book. The pacing between the plot points is just incredible–it’s easy to forget that you get Dent and Joker story lines that perfectly end those characters’ arcs, he introduces the mutants and then destroys them, gets a new Robin, and then does the Superman story line, with none of it feeling rushed or disjointed. It’s an epic feat of storytelling.
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Wow, great analysis here. I’ve been waiting for something like this for 33 years - looking forward to hear them dissect the rest of this series!
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It’s @codinghorror cakeday!
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Yes, totally agree - and that’s always been a kind of a problem for me, I’d love to read more comics but very little else compares… maybe Zot! but I dunno - is there anything contemporary?
Pity the sequels underwhelmed.
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I recently re-read The Dark Knight Returns and wasn’t as impressed. The plotline has a lot of conveniences and people acting extremely dumb in order to get to the point where Frank can speak through Bruce to deliver his ham handed moral monologue. It’s a comic that vacillates between characters carrying idiot balls to keep the plotline moving and then philosophical points that are worthy of debate.
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If you want something more modern and a little less superheroy there is the Saga series. It is not trying so hard to make its philosophical points, but that doesn’t mean it’s without substance. Just that the message tends to be woven into the story instead of being dropped in monologues.
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It’s one of four parts, so I’m sure they’ll mention it in one of them. From what I’ve watched of the show, they try to hit works from a lot of angles and will break a piece up over a couple of episodes so they can really go over it.
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I think I still have a couple of copies of this series. Am I rich yet?
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Well, the reason why I mentioned it for this particular episode is there were a few occasions where they seemed to be leading up to it, the mention of satire of bleeding hearts, media, government and youth culture, for example.
Nihilism is mentioned later in the episode. It’s been a long time since I read the comic, so maybe it is appropriate to associate nihilism with the first, Two-Face featuring, issue, but I don’t think it fits the whole, as Batman certainly seems to give life meaning at the end.
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