If only there was a way that society could encourage gay men to enter into committed monogamous relationships!
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Very much agree, how is this still a âthingâ?
This guyâs really grasping at thin air here
[quote=âspazmodius93, post:19, topic:34304â]Licentious gay dudes with their unprotected/anonymous sex equated to more than half the new cases of HIV! Lesbians not so much.
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First, that in itself doesnât mean that homosexuality is harmful. It just means the behavior that some homosexual men engage in is potentially harmful.
Second, so is Perry okay with lesbians being allowed to marry then?
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Was this Perryâs underhanded way of saying something like âJust because I suck a little c**k doesnât mean Iâm gay?â
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Texas, can you please vote this bigot out of office, already? Even Floridaâs lookinâ at you sideways.
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Well he does seem to be on pretty familiar terms with the sausage smokers.
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But if being drunk is like being Rick Perry, and being drunk is like being gay then isnât being Rick Perry like being gay?
Oh hell, now my head hurts!
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If by âdata than can be appliedâ you mean data that can be applied incorrectly to get a desired (and skewed) result that does not bear on the original position. What the study you linked to describes is how an STD can become more prevalent in gay men when the society they have been subjected to has heaped shame and derision (and even made it illegal at times) on something that is most likely beyond the real of âchoiceâ. What does your link say about the rates of HIV on the continent of Africa? Guess what; âLicentiousâ people with their unprotected/anonymous sex probably account for the majority of STD transmission since the start of when people knew WHERE diseases came from. Just imagine if HIV had been treated like any STD by the CDC when the Reagan administration was in control. We might have had real truth coming out of the agency and not lost almost an entire generation of people. Your ignorance is showing. Homosexuality does not cause harm, but unprotected, anonymous, and high volume, sex with multiple partners can. If your ability to think critically canât reach that depth, best stay out of the pool.
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Percentage of gay (cis)males who die or are disabled due to complications in childbirth resulting from licentious and wanton (cis)heterosexual intercourse? 0%!!! ZOMG!!! Stop those fuckers!*
Anyone who points at some socially-defined group and says some variation of âthey have group-specific disease rates! Therefore bad!â needs to take some basic epidemiology: disease is socially produced (not talking about socially constructed, thatâs a different conversation), for about One Metric Assload of reasons. Social difference translates into different individual and population risks of health disease:
Different social conditions? Then:
- Different access to material resources for health (e.g. housing, income, education)
- Different exposure to health hazards (e.g. domestic and state violence, occupation chemical exposures, etc.)
- Different spatial/geographic distribution of experiences, and therefore different ecologies⌠including different pathogen ecologies (e.g. vegetarian pathogen ecologies versus omnivore, rural versus urban, etc.)
- Different access to health care (e.g. economic barries/apportioning of access and quality, differences and provider care for identical complaints based on gender, etc.)
* In the literal sense of the word âfuckersâ, mind you.
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I often find myself irritated with the liberal dogma that one is simply born gay or not, there are plenty of people in this world who engage in same sex relations for reasons other than being born gay but somehow these behaviors are discounted. The idea of what makes one gay varies considerably from culture to culture, in my admittedly limited understanding, with sexual activity with passive male partners being widely regarded as a straight activity in many cultures other than the one in which I was raised.
First off, I donât think thereâs really any cultural difference on being homosexual. No matter what culture youâre in, homosexual acts are homosexual acts. Thereâs nothing really culturally relative about that. The acceptance, sure, some are more accepting than others, but the fact of homosexuality is not culturally relative.
Secondly, there isnât a âliberal dogmaâ of being either born gay or not. Sexual preference all across the board in all different ways is a bunch of sliding scales, including scales that range from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual (with the opposite leading to repulsion). People, at least at the heart of the movement, do have knowledge of this and take this into account.
Regarding being âbornâ gay vs choosing to be gay, one absolutely doesnât choose to be gay (I would say Iâve found other men that I wish I could be attracted to, that if I could choose to be gay I would have); nor is there âa gay geneâ which some people are so dead-set on believing. The current thinking is thereâs some amount of heredity factors that can make one lean one way or another and environmental factors that can lead to it (both in vivo and after birth), but no one really knows what these factors are per se. Any personalty trait such as this or any other is a phenomenally complex thing and it is a belittlement to people to boil it down to a dichotomous thing by one simple cause.
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So, you are basically saying that people arenât âborn gayâ they just have a gene that may predispose them towards homosexual behavior(as well as a cocktail of environmental factors which equally influence them) somewhere on a spectrum of sexual behaviors.
Not trying to be a dick, but that is remarkably like alcoholism in that there isnât a specific gene for alcoholism. People may be genetically predisposed to have a higher risk of alcoholism, but the behavior is still dependent on a cocktail of environmental factors which equally influence them. Finally, alcoholics fall somewhere on a spectrum of severe to limited alcohol abuse.
It kind of sounds like Rick Perry made a PERFECT ANALOGY? Perhaps he acted like an ass by saying âI donât choose to be an alcoholicâ and by choosing to compare homosexuality to something that most people find morally wrong, but the underpinnings of both behaviors are similar from a genetic perspective.
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[Note, if you were meaning this sarcastically and/or in a for example of something bigots can use against people, I apologize for being nasty. I hate statistics and correlations used for nefarious ends, such as saying being gay is harmful.]
Congratulations. You can see correlation. But as many harp, correlation does not mean causation.
This does not say that being gay causes harm. This shows that there is a behavior in the homosexual community that is particularly conducive to spreading AIDS. Itâs actually identified-- unprotected and anonymous sex. The causes are likely our piss-poor sex ed in this county combined with society treating homosexuals like second class citizens causes an uptake in riskier behaviors.
Iâm fairly confident that if data is separated out between those who behave in known risk behaviors vs those who donât weâll see a phenomenally different picture.
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I hate to tell you this Greg but I think he does resist that urge and this is what we get instead of his really stupid thoughtsâŚscary huh?
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Wow, what a way to twist my words around. For one, I wasnât even really referring to what dickhead Perry was saying; and I donât give a fuck what the exact words were, but more of his message. Perryâs message is that being gay is a bad thing and we should all shun it; which is not the fucking case. But I wasnât even honestly commenting on that, more to counter what someone else was saying.
And Iâm saying that where ever you are on the scales of sexuality, youâre not strictly born that way; thereâs a myriad of factors all over the place that influence you throughout development and into childhood. Some of those may be genetics, itâs unknown, but regardless there are many. But even further, thereâs definitely not a choice in the matter, one is the way one is.
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As a southerner in a. Family full of people that think pretty much the same thing the gov here isnât alone.
I do not discuss my views with said family I do not need another ulcer.
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You guys do realize that his statement is entirely accurate and consistent within the confines of his worldview, right? Homosexual behavior puts your soul in danger, so if you feel compelled to engage in it, you need to always fight against it.
I donât mean this as a defense of Perry, but rather as an indictment of his worldview.
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Inanity, bigotry, and⌠well, we donât need more than that do we? No need to complicate things.
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It seems he has no problem expressing his asshole gene.
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I thought that the Smart Glasses were supposed to helpâŚ
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Take two genetically identical siblings, raise them separately from birth in different cultures with opposing values, and they will end up exhibiting opposite behaviors.
Raise one to view cannibalism as sacred, the other to view it as profane. Raise one into patriarchy, the other into matriarchy. Raise one into exclusive homosexuality, the other into exclusive heterosexuality. It doesnât matter which values you reinforce, if itâs all someone has ever known, their genetic predilections means effectively squat.
That said, those predilections do still exist - and when exposed to new ideas outside of their cultural limitations, they may incite dramatic behavioral changes. Someone with a genetic predilection for sweet foods, raised exclusively on a diet of bitter foods, and then suddenly exposed to the sweet foods long eatten by their ancestors might find the new food strangely and inexplicably appealing - or by the same token, they might hate it outright.
It depends on the strength and interaction of the two competing influences. No one is âbornâ gay, whole and intrinsically - theyâre merely born with certain genetic tendencies which can vary wildly in strength and expression.
Unfortunatley for instinct, however, human will and active choice has the very real potential to supplant instinctual drive or genetic predilection. Rick Perry might be a hateful, intolerant, misguided bigot who is destructive and toxic in most every regard, but heâs technically not wrong about the fact that a person can choose to defy their genetics.
Now, choosing when, where, and why to defy your genetics? Thatâs the important part. For example, my genetics provided me with awful eyesight - so I choose to augment my vision with a rudimentary form of cybernetics known as âeyeglassesâ. I might have been âbornâ blind, but I have good, practical reasons for not remaining that way.
Of course, when Rick Perry asks people to defy their genetic predilections as to whom they find themselves sexually attracted to, his reasons arenât practical - theyâre cultural, stemming directly from religious beliefs. Heâs basically engaged in a culture war, trying to force his values onto others who do not share them.
If it turned out Rick Perry had a genetic predilection toward homosexuality, but he chose to defy it for personal, religious reasons? Fine by me. Itâs his life, theyâre his genes, he can do what he wants with them.
The problem is that heâs not content with making his own choices - he insists on making them for others, too. Heâs selfish and controlling and hateful, all in service to an arbitrary set of beliefs about things no human can possibly know - like the nature of universe, âabsoluteâ morality, and the existence of a deity or greater power. His behavior is unspeakable, and his cause irrational.
And thereâs the worst part of it all - arguably none of us even âchooseâ to defy out genetics. Our behavior taken in contrast to our natural predilections seems to be chiefly driven by whatever values have been instilled into us by our society. Itâs often not so much we who âchooseâ, as it is our cultures that do so. How can we separate our own motivations from the values weâve had instilled into us most strongly?
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