This is in response to a request for a topic split.
I don’t think he denies that transgender people exist, but he does frame it as (possibly, but not certainly) a mental illness. He says that in his daily life he uses their preferred pronouns when engaging with transgender people.
He feels like there should be a more frank discussion about how transgender people fit into society, but frank discussions get shut down in today’s hypersensitive culture.
We can’t be so blindly “woke” that we ignore the very real physiological differences between men and women. A trans woman fighting in the UFC against biological women would be disastrous. Denying reality is not helpful to anyone. And the example I gave actually happened, Google Fallon Fox for more information.
I wonder what’s the reason for that fascination. At my former workplace we had a rabid transphobe, and he was obsessed in a really unhealthy way. Few years ago he completely spontaneously started talking about it at Christmas meeting and that weird mix of hate and passion in his voice really was really creepy and disturbing.
I could say conservatism is a mental illness, thus conservative views about their rights can be ignored since they are mentally ill. Doesn’t make it real.
But how did this thread become about transgender individuals instead of Ben “Nazi Sympathizer” Shapiro? Why are you resorting to normalizing transphobe talking points to prop up a fascist agitator? I don’t care who sports where or why, that’s up to the sports folks to figure out. I care about the REAL HARM people like Ben Shapiro are doing to our country by denying that others exist and aren’t worthy of rights because they are <insert reason why they don’t deserve rights, be it “mental illness” or whatever other fascist ideology he believes in>. It’s an all too familiar refrain. They’re illegal; they’re mentally ill; they’re government employees; they’re poor; they can’t remember what their abusers penis looks like forty years later; reason after reason for keeping people out of the public discourse so HIS views are heard over theirs.
You could say that, and nobody on this thread would bat an eye. Fairness is awfully subjective sometimes.
But you’re right about me getting off topic, so I’ll go ahead and shut it down.
People having an edge on fighting in the UFC is not a significant societal problem. At least 50% of all people in pretty much all UFC fights get savagely beaten. Fallon Fox is a great example though. She learned the word “transgender” at 17. She felt an urge to have a female body at age 5 or 6. Had she known then that that was an actual choice, she could have transitioned earlier and the great trouble in our society of unfair UFC matches would be behind us. People being miserable on a daily basis, to the point of suicide, is a bigger issue than sports. Outside of women’s sports, any other issues? Please don’t say bathrooms.
I find that the transphobes desire to bring back sluggish schizophrenia as an armchair diagnosis for transgender people is extremely disturbing, and something that should be stopped at all costs before they start finding other people (other LGBQ, feminists, socialists, POC and liberals) who supposedly have this pseudo-scientific condition. It should have never got as far as trans people in the first place.
I have no desire to discuss this further.
“It’s not my job to defend transphobia, but I’m going to do it anyway.”
Why? What business of his is it in the first place? With apologies to transgender folks, they don’t make me super comfortable either. But that’s my problem, not theirs. The thing you have to ask yourself is what is the rationale for right-wing extremists to be focusing on this issue in the first place? It’s dog-whistle politics you see. Find a defenseless group that is easy to victimize and scapegoat the ills of society onto them; it’s fascism 101. And doesn’t Shapiro refer to himself as a libertarian? What exactly is libertarian about not recognizing the inherent rights of everyone? What happened to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”? What happened to live and let live?
I think if Donald Trump expressed that, it would be surprising, but honestly if that was the week’s issue, it’d concern me much less than almost every other week of his presidency. It’s really an issue for him and Melania, and none of my fucking business. GLAD may not give him the benefit of the doubt, and may give him no prizes, but unless he significantly gets less tranphobic, and I’m certain many in the LGBT community would still think him a creep. What prizes do the gays win for coming out as gay? I am certain there are conservatives who’s world view I greatly disagree with who are LGBT. The issue of folks like Huckabee saying “Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE,” means he’s a fucking creep. But that’s not new information. The average age people figure out gender tends to be around 10, but that may skew younger if there’s less stigma around it. As a cis-guy of advanced years, I’m aware I went to highschool with guys who have later came out as gay, and they saw me in the locker room. I still go to locker rooms and get dressed around guys, some of who are bi or gay. Has likely happened to you too. If they were creepy or inappropriate about it, it’d be an issue, it never has been for me. But that’s fundamentally a creep issue, not a gender issue. Again, besides sports, what the problem?
I agree with you completely on that point, Libertarians believe that very thing. It only becomes problematic when someone else’s choices affect other people. If my daughter wrestles in high school, or plays soccer, tennis, whatever, and a trans woman wants to compete with other biological women, that’s patently unfair. There’s a reason why we have separate men’s and women’s sports teams.
Also, should seven year-olds get hormones if they think they want them? They can’t lawfully consent to anything else. Should we pass laws criminalizing mis-gendering? Is that fair?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having those types of discussions, but it’s very difficult in an ultra-woke echo chamber. Unfortunately taking these ideas to a right wing site doesn’t work either, on the other extreme.
Lets say for argument’s sake you have a point. That’s kind of besides the point. Meanwhile the world is burning, a white supremacist is POTUS, mass shootings have become as American as apple pie, the Justice Department is a partisan wing of the Executive Branch (with the Supreme Court well on its way), Trump takes marching orders from Kim Jong-Un and Mohammed Bin Salman such that we may see a war with Iran, the deficit is spiralling out of control, the likelihood of a devastating recession grows with every passing day inequality, poverty and homelessness continue to grow…I think you get my point.
Of course there are more pressing issues, I don’t think anyone would argue that. Those problems aren’t going to be solved on an internet message board, this is a place for discussion, so we can have an open dialogue about transgenderism and maybe learn something from each other, take that information with us to another message board, and so on. Without the ham-fisted virtue signaling.
On a side note, I very much agree that the issues you listed are valid and scary as hell. The partisan nature of the SC and federal courts in general are a real threat to our Republic. If RGB has to step down while DT is still POTUS, we’re FUBAR’d.
And where are they on the gun debate? Doesn’t my children’s right not to be mowed down at school because of a deranged person’s choice to own an assault rifle apply? Isn’t that a far more serious problem than worrying about who “my daughter wrestles in high school” for fuck’s sake!!!
You see it’s all projection, deflection and gaslighting with this crew. The hypocrisy is so thick you couldn’t spread it with a bulldozer.
Well…that’s not exactly the same thing, because no one is forcing you to own a rifle or to be shot under penalty of law. There are already laws that prohibit ‘dangerous’ people from owning assault rifles, and homicide is still quite illegal. However I am on record here as saying I would support a ban on all firearms except hunting rifles and shotguns because I can’t ignore the fact that the US has a very serious gun violence problem.
It’s counterintuitive to let kids get hormones at a young age. I get that. It’s not done casually. There is research on this, on average, it seems kids are happier, more similar to cis peers in quality of life markers and less distressed if they’re allowed the hormones or hormone blockers to transition. More research would of course be better. There’s a long term study underway, following a large group of people.
I think you’re missing my greater point. There are far more dangerous and concerning issues that need to be addressed that right-wing agitators like Shapiro aren’t talking about. That tells you everything you need to know.
Yes, that guy is a devout Catholic, and extremely conservative one at that. I think you may be right on this.
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