If it is, y’all are toast.
It isn’t just about dethroning the TrumpGOP; even without fascists throwing petrol on the fire, if the replacement doesn’t hit the ground running on climate change and economic justice, the crash is still going to come.
We’re out of time.
We’re talking past each other really well, but alas, I have to go now. Nice being talking at by you.
Yes the tea party is the precedent for hijacking a major party. I just don’t think it’ll work with Democrats . . . because the establishment has learned from the precedent as well. And I’d argue the Democrats aren’t as completely bankrupt ideologically and conflicted in terms of coalition as the Rs were. That’s arguable, I realize.
So acknowledging that Sanders has consistently and pointedly identified himself as a non-Democrat is some kind of huge sticking point?
What I’m trying to point out is that there were two pretty much unprecedented candidacies in 2016. That argues that there also might be room for new parties.
Climate change I think any Dem (other than a Blue Dog from coal/oil country) will be okay on.
It’s already too late, natch, and 4/8 years of Trump is going to make it worse.
It isn’t me “letting” them. It is them “choosing” it. I can’t stop them from killing themselves with GOP and Trumper policies, can I?
To get effective rather than symbolic action on climate change, you need to negate the political power of rich old people. I don’t see that happening without a full execute-and-reanimate job on the Dems.
Ideally, get rid of all of the existing bent incumbents. As that is likely to be impossible, the next best option is what the Tea Party did: make the incumbents so scared of primary challenges that they’re intimidated into doing the “right” thing despite their actual inclinations.
For that to happen, you don’t need a friendly, collegial relationship between the establishment and the reformers. You need the establishment to be fucking terrified of the howling mob that is coming for their heads.
Don’t worry. This will be ignored in the narrative being constructed here since it doesn’t support their a priori conclusions.
Yes.
But the people that face primary challenges are going to be Manchin, Heitkamp etc, and if they do lose in the Primary, the GOP will win the General.
The people who need to be primaried are Schumer, Pelosi, Feinstein, Murray etc.
So who cares? A lot of people apparently care.
But why? Does it actually matter? If it doesn’t put opposition butts into seats, then how popular he is has no value. BFD.
Congress has the opposite problem. They’re less popular than roaches, but nobody managed to make that worth much, either. (Pity this isn’t a bigger FD.)
If there’s going to be a third party, let’s see how one works at the state and local government levels. If they can’t hack it there, they probably don’t belong in the Federal government. I think that’s a fair criterion to set.
?
Cory Booker, or maybe Elizabeth Warren
The people who need to be primaried are all of them. The Manchins, the Feinsteins, even the Warrens.
Make them work for your support.
Never mind, I is dim.
I saw your link, thought it sounded like the Justice Democrats, but didn’t see it was the Justice Democrats.
[quote]
how is Hillary adopting a large part of his agenda “sidelining” him?
[quote=“enso, post:157, topic:97339”]
She mouthed a lot of words. She didn’t really adopt anything.
[/quote][/quote]
yeah, I guess the Democratic platform was fake news. sad…
You can, actually! Do you live in a neighborhood or city that voted Trump? How many serious GOP/Trump-supporters are you friendly with (like, would invite over for dinner)? How many live in your neighborhood? How many do you work with?
If you want to influence the choices that people make, one of the best ways to do it is the mere exposure effect - they see you doing it, and suddenly the possibilities are broader than they once were.
I don’t blame you if you don’t want to take on any of responsibility, but you should be aware of the possibility, and aware of the costs of NOT doing it.
I live in Austin and in the runup to the election I talked to some locals that were Trumpward bound during the election season that were rural folks (I’m a white guy, so I can manage it). While interesting, they’d so bought into the Clinton conspiracy theories that while they hated voting for Trump, they were certain that Clinton was secretly murdering whoever got in her way, and the discussions didn’t really make a lot of progress, though I was at least happy to see they loathed Trump. Among the good old boys a New Yorker living in a gilded palace in Manhattan is close to anathema, but not as much as a woman who murders everyone who fails to do her bidding. Still it does go to show that people actually do show up to the polls to vote against an option they fear and hate. The only person they hated more than Clinton was Sanders since he was a Communist (I had to work to suppress laughing when they said that).
