Well, you know, since she’s shown her true, shrill nature… If only women would settle down and let men do the talking… /s
Seriously, I love Bernie, and think this is a genuine honest disagreement. I’m sure this is going to bring the sexist claptrap out of the fucking wood work, and YET AGAIN, scuttle a truly progressive agenda, because some people can’t deal with
Elizabeth Warren invented this “controversy” (aka smear) and drove it every step of the way. She could have blocked the initial delivery of the story to CNN, and at any point she could have responded, “I’m not going to talk about a private conversation between friends.” Instead, she chose to stay on plan, confirm the (planted) story, and play the role of the victim at the debate.
It gives me no joy to point out it, but this episode has revealed her true nature. I wish it were not the case; it’d be better if she were a principled and reliable ally in the progressive movement.
If you believe in equality, then you should be angered by false charges of sexism. If we stay silent while Bernie Sanders is called a sexist, then the term becomes meaningless. The next time we need to call out real discrimination, the retort will be “oh, you mean like Sanders.”
All forms of sexism and discrimination should be pointed out and fought. Baseless claims and political weaponization of these things are pernicious and counterproductive, and also need to be called out.
No, it’s exactly what I would say in public to a friend if I felt they’d done that. That you have to tiptoe around your friends doesn’t mean that everyone does.
Funny thing is, if it were reversed, everyone would be saying how straightforward and honest he is. But she’s expected to smile politely and let it go. Most of us women have seen this all before, a billion times. It doesn’t matter who’s in the right, everybody expects the woman to make peace. We know the patterns.
If anyone’s manufacturing controversy and can’t let it go, it’s someone who’s using the terms “smear”, “planted” and insisting that the woman is a conniving backstabbing gossip. Fuck, just call her the wicked stepmother and get over it, but don’t pretend you’re not up to your eyeballs in the misogyny you’re claiming doesn’t exist.
Edited to fix autocomplete error.
You don’t actually know that. Stop pretending you’re omnipotent.
If you believe in equality, believe women.
OH. I get it… men are the REAL victims.
Dude, the point I was trying to make is that, if you look at Sanders and his surrogates, they have all handled this with grace and class.
I would put it to you that they know what is best for the campaign, and if you want to do what is best for the campaign and the movement, you should do should do the same.
I’m trying to handle it the way Krystal Ball has handled it on her show. She lays it out better than I can, so I’d recommend watching her comments, here and here.
I believe Krystal.
There were Bernie supporters post snake emojis to warren’s twitter feed… Is that grace and class?
I’m guessing this whole thing is an honest disagreement, and we’re all just buying into it. The problems of society are complex, and if we can’t embrace that reality, we’re fucked. What’s happening in Australia is our future if we can’t fix our problems and understand that misogyny and racism are real problems along side classism.
I was talking about his official campaign surrogates like Briahna Joy Gray or Nina Turner or Killer Mike, as opposed to his supporters on Twitter.
Unfortunately, the random twitter users matter too and can manage to spread information as effectively, if not more so than official surrogates, especially when it comes to women.
Which is exactly the point I was trying to to make to @etpol01. If Bernie is happy to take the high road, he knows what he’s doing, and his supporters should follow his example instead of taking the low road on his behalf.
His willingness to always take the high road has worked out really well.
His followers aren’t confined to his more well-known supporters, but to pretty much everyone who follows him on the twitters. That is the world that we live in now.
I love Bernie and support him. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t misogynists who follow him or that the entire world isn’t shot through with disdain for women who don’t conform. And those people help shape views and opinions, too.
Exactly which of things I said would you classify as “low road”?
Apparently, according to other posters, saying “All forms of sexism and discrimination should be pointed out and fought” is inappropriate.
The high road is let it go.
Nobody actually believes that Sanders said that he thought a woman couldn’t be president, or that he was lying when he denied it, so, regardless of whether it was an attempt to harm him, it didn’t.
So let it go.
I don’t see how you can say that. The story has been all over cable news for days, and certainly not spun in Sanders’ favor. The major papers are running op-eds saying things like, “Warren was right to confront Sanders on Tuesday.” (LA Times).
Sorry, but I’m not buying the “shush, never criticize anyone on our team ever or the bad guys will win” mentality. It’s what got us to Trump.
If a politician doesn’t want to be called corrupt, then they should refuse corporate money. If they don’t want to be called out as sleazy, then they shouldn’t do sleazy things. Like most of America, I’m sick of them. Sanders is the only presidential candidate who even comes close to acceptable.
Again, you are beginning with the premise she lied about the 2018 conversation with Bernie when she spoke with members of her campaign about it even though you have zero evidence that is the case.
I don’t know exactly what was said in that conversation. It’s possible Warren is lying. It’s possible Bernie is lying. It’s possible the two candidates honestly have different recollections or interpretations of what Bernie said.
One thing I do know about the conversation is that YOU weren’t there, so there’s no way you could possibly be sure Warren “invented” this. Pretending otherwise makes you look like a zealot.
This is too perfect. I’ve got one person insisting that:
And the next spending three paragraphs to make the apparently-dramatic-to-them knockout point that (all-caps) I wasn’t there, and:
If you’re participating this level of cognitive dissonance, it may be time to start rethinking aspects of your world view.
What are you actually doing here?
This conflation of two commenters into, I guess, one collective hive mind? It’s nonsense.
It’s not a dramatic point, it’s an obvious fact that makes you utterly unqualified to proclaim with confidence that Warren “invented” the story.
Saying he doesn’t know is not the same as believing.
To be fairI did use a tiny touch of hyperbole there. With three hundred million people in the US, I obviously can’t make a 100% literal statement that applies to every single one of them. It’s funny, though, because we usually get the hive mind accusations coming from the right here.
I think more people can see through that than you think. The people involved in this who I am sure are lying, and lying flagrantly, outright, and knowingly, are everyone at CNN involved in covering the story or the debate. I think that part was flagrant enough that people can see through it, though.
