From the sheer number of allegations against him, it appears quite likely that Cosby’s very guilty.
But pulling this old bit out really doesn’t seem to have anything to do with that.It’s just a bit about a mythical aphrodisiac.
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I agree and unfortunately it seems as if a lot of BB posts are starting to be all about hype and exclamation to garner clicks, not actual reports on issues. I have started to browse less and less because of this…
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Interesting point that I’m leaving up here and walking away:
BoingBoing article noting how uncomfortable it is that Bill Cosby used to make a joke about using a date rape drug, given current accusations against him (albeit without criminal chares being brought about, although that may be more due to the rape culture of the times of the crimes than the actual truth of the allegations).
Also on BoingBoing- a Slick Rick trading card. Slick Rick wrote “Treat Her Like A Prostitute”, pled guilty to attempted murder and other charges, and served time for those charges.
None of this is to comment on the character of either men. But it’s weird, ain’t it, to think there would be a day when Bill Pudding Pop Jello Cosby is accused of multiple rapes (multiple!), and Slick Rick gets a portrait because he’s a cherished artist and one of the key early players in hip hop.
Also, Charles Manson got married today.
Man…world is strange…
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I thought it was about being a credulous, horny 13 year old boy (about half of us have been there).
It turns out that the chemical from the insect called a Spanish fly, cantharidin, is not something to mess around with:
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Comedians have license to say things that would otherwise sound bizarre and inappropriate coming from other mouths. (If your pastor told you the Aristocrats joke, that might tweak your sense of decorum slightly, but maybe not.) That’s a important job, making the shadowy creepy stuff visible and risible to the otherwise uptight and repressed masses–but in Mr. Cosby’s case, looking back, and hearing what we’re hearing today from a number of people, it creates an interesting tension, because now an otherwise innocuous joke appears to open a door to understanding his frame of reference, his perspective, his impulses and attitudes. Maybe it’s nothing at all, and certainly if he’s innocent (which we must presume of course), then all of this hand wringing over a single little joke plucked from a massive body of work would seem almost as perverse as the rapey subtext of the joke itself.
Unfortunately (in this instance) for Mr. Cosby, he’s a massive celebrity, a comedy aristocrat, and the burden of his public persona is to carry the weight of so much emotional investment from the people who have followed his career. You can’t blame people for trying to understand who or what he really is, especially given that he has benefited from and enjoyed the rewards of so much adoration and respect. That’s why people are making such a big deal out of one little toss-away joke from 1969.
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As someone sensitive and concerned about date rape, I can draw a distinction between age old myth and fantasy around love potions and date rape drugs. One is about a far-fetched fantasy to achieve a sort of willful hyper-consent (a sexual cupid’s arrow if you will) and the other is about incapacitation. If anything I think you’re doing a disservice to the seriousness of date rape drugs (and motivations behind them) by conveniently lumping them together. Weird to see this correlation here.
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Oh yeah, and if Joan Rivers was around to read this post, she would tell you to get a clue because comedy.
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When I was 13 or 17 for that matter, anything that could potentially hold the power to attract girls, would be viewed with mysticism, whispers and awe.
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I miss Maggie.
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Don’t forget the sponsored link stories that magically hover at the top of the page for days.
I appreciate that running a website costs real money, but sabotaging trust to stay afloat is not going to work in the long run.
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Exactly this. As somebody who was once a 13 year old boy - mysticism, whispers and awe was pretty much how EVERYTHING relating to sex was viewed.
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Would it work now? No. not because rape isn’t funny, but because you couldn’t switch a modern date rape drug for spanish fly. The joke wouldn’t work. It wouldn’t be the same joke.
What about the fact that Cosby is talking about kids talking about forcing girls to do something against their will?
This is troubling, this is indefensible, this is wrong. We know this now. its not the core of the joke, but it is the set up.
I think we can understand that rape isn’t funny, find rape jokes as a category abhorrent and condemn people for making fun of rape, and still understand why a joke works as a joke. Even if its horrible and damaging to society.
I don’t think this joke falls in that category, but the hard part when talking about jokes is that some jokes work because of the truths we find there, even if they are unavowed, and there’s a lot to this joke, and its hard not to appreciate Cosby, he’s a really funny comedian. the meat of the joke is in whats not avowed:
The hushed tones of 13 year olds talking about spanish fly and its effects reminds me of a George Lopez joke talking about a girl’s breasts when he was a kid, he said something like “I didn’t know what to do with them, I just knew I wanted them”, I get the same sort of feeling here, that the kids here don’t really know what they’re talking about.
That to the adult bill Cosby, spanish fly is still a mystery is another level of the joke, the idea that Cosby is subtly playing with the idea that sex can be mysterious even to adults, that somehow its hard to outgrow the ignorant 13 year old that is aimlessly being guided by curiosity and hormones and a lack of information from his parents and society at large.
That nobody has tried spanish fly is a very important part of the joke, everybody’s heard of it, but nobody’s tried it. That there’s something more to sex that is denied to us, and that “If only I could get some spanish fly” I could find satisfaction, is another level to what makes the joke work as a joke.
So yes, anybody trying to make the same joke in the same form with today’s standards is just asking for trouble and I recognize that there’s a dark undertone to the joke that makes it troubling today.
No, I won’t try to convince you its funny, I’m just saying that if there is a dark undercurrent to it, then there’s also relevance and when you view the joke this way, you run the risk of laughing.
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Sure but in the case of the Cosby skit, it’s funny because he finds out that in Spain they have this mythical “American Fly”. It makes him look dumb and awkward, because he was all excited about this stupid magical powder that’s just a myth passed around by 13 year old boys.
If the skit were about him giving his girlfriend Spanish Fly and her doing all sorts of things, it would be a pretty creepy monologue.
I mean, the set up is the same. “Boys will be boys.” Dude is looking for some magic juju to make some girl horny. Sure, the just-desserts for the seeker of Love Potion #9 are a little more severe than those that Cosby gets, but the start of the story is exactly the same.
Anyway, I’m not saying that the bit is one of my favorites or anything. In fact, it’s one of his attempts at bluer humor that falls pretty flat, in my opinion. But I think “date rape drug” is a little extreme. I think Mark could have gone with “aphrodesiac” and have been exactly correct, non-sensational, and still gotten his point across. This is a little too Sun News for me. That’s all.
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I made the pint in another post and its worth noting here, that the fact that tho joke continues until he’s grown up and he (and the cabdriver) still views spanish fly with mysticism, whispers and awe is part of the joke. That even as a grown man you can still be, or feel anyway, ignorant.
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I dunno, the skit makes it pretty clear that the use of spanish fly was to put it in someone’s drink. Rohypnol has a reputation as a date rape drug, but a drug doesn’t have to knock the person out to qualify as a date rape drug.
Basically, if someone chooses to take an aphrodisiac, for whatever reason, then that’s fine. If someone wants to take MDMA for a better sexual experience, then that’s great. But if I give you MDMA without your knowledge, and then take advantage of the mood you’re in, then I have just done something pretty horrible, and you would be right to feel that the consent you gave was not real consent.
I agree with Tachin1 that the core of the joke is about the mysterious exotic aspect of sex, and the date-rapey aspect is the setup. but the setup is weird/gross, and the payoff doesn’t really repudiate the setup - it cements the idea that spanish fly is some awesome universal fantasy
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Didn’t Hogwarts ban that stuff?
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In the social environment depicted in the joke, NSFW would probably translate as “Not Safe for Women”.
Since you ask, in my world, which is present day America, edgy jokes are not a crime, and even funny at times, but unironic crypto-rape jokes are definitely a niche subject, probably most popular among young boys in tree houses and boozy college males on a Spring Break bender. It’s OK to laugh at them, if that’s your taste, but there’s a bit of a difference between a serial rapist telling the joke and somebody who’s just trying to tweak a Puritan’s nose. Just sayin’.
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Obviously the 1969 audience does think it’s funny.
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The problem is that you are trying to ascribe universality to imagined subtexts.
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