I always took the song to mean that the titular Love Potion #9 was supposed to make the drinker more attractive, but instead of making himself irresistible to others as intended the subject just became aroused by everything he came across. So if anyone was guilty of administering a date rape drug it was the Gypsy, not the guy who bought the potion.
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Iâm thinking the same thing. By making no distinction whatsoever between the concept of a fanciful tale of horny teenage male fantasy and actual horrible things that happen in the real world is a weird way of cheapening the severity of the actual thing that exists. Why do that?
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Iâm not sure that I agree that the world depicted in the joke is far-fetched fantasy. If anything itâs grounded in the reality of the times, which from our modern perspective seems vaguely misogynist, or maybe a bit predatory, or something. I donât think Mr. Cosby was trying to say or imply that drugging females into submission is his idea of a good timeâor any manâs, for that matterâbut it is a little squirm inducing to hear him tell a story that has a casual (or is it causal) relationship to his current predicament, which as Iâve heard it, may be similar to some of the themes and situations described or suggested in the joke. Thatâs not conveniently lumping two things togetherâitâs more like watching an extremely inconvenient coincidence of humor and personal tragedy.
Myth and fantasy are indeed the proper domain for these kinds of transgressionsâbut when they are acted out by powerful and privileged men, weird does not begin to describe the situation.
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And as late as 1985, non-consensual Spanish Fly jokes were still in pop culture.
This girl walked by, she gave me the eye
I reached in the locker, grabbed the Spanish Fly
I put it with the Monkey, mixed it in the cup
Went over to the girl, âYo baby, whatâs up?â
I offered her a sip-sip, the girl she gave me lip-lip
It did begin, the stuff wore in and now sheâs on my tip
ps - I love the works of Beasties and Cosby. But, time turns some wine to vinegar.
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Yes. It was fucking hilarious. Especially to a 9 year old boy listening to it the following year.
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I can blame people, and by âpeopleâ, I mean -you-⌠which is what -you- also mean when you say people⌠except you really do seem to think you speak for someone other than you (note, not one single âIâ in your comments, and a lot of speaking for the group).
anyhow I -can- blame people who use such fallacious innuendo laden fact free opinion hit pieces well before facts are in. I can blame them for being almost exactly what theyâre seeing in Cosby (or whichever innocent until proven guilty person they decide fits the agenda today)
Also, THE ARISTOCRATS. It wasnât a joke! I meant it!
I donât think Mr. Cosby was trying to say or imply that drugging
females into submission is his idea of a good timeâor any manâs, for
that matterâbutâŚ
yeah, well, you definitively seem to be, and defending that position quite a lot, as well.
LoL people are actually arguing about this?
The guy is accused by more than a dozen women of rape using a roofie-like drug. He also joked about a similar thing years before.
Thatâs it.
Thatâs all it needs to be worth pointing out to anyone unfamiliar with some crappy record from 45 years ago.
As in âwhat are the odds ofâ
As for whether what he was talking about was an aphrodisiac or a rape drug, letâs see
⌠all signs point to the latter.
You required a chemical agent be administered to the object (intentional use of object) of your attentions without their being aware of it or its intended effect in order to cause the object to either engage when where left to their own free will they would not, or simply not resist. Congratulations, you are a sex offender.
as to whether Cosby was talking about slipping her some spanish fly in the above sense, heâs ambiguous about that in the recording, resorting to his mumbly ways at that point.
Googling âslip her some spanish flyâ or âgive her some spanish flyâ pretty much removes his ambiguity. Hereâs a top hit among many that document intentions and means through history when they have discussed spanish fly etc http://www.snopes.com/risque/aphrodisiacs/gearshift.asp
All he or his proponents or independent pedants have left then is âIt was 1969! The men all did it or would have if it were realâ. But that isnât true, so yeah, IF you feel the need to look beyond the coincidence involved, which is kinda funny in itself, yeah heâs joking about rape as many fools did at the time & still occasionally do today.
As the facts may never be in as regards Cosby, Iâll take his having paid settlements on such matters as all I really need to form an opinion based on a fact that is in fact already in. Fuck that old fool, he wasnât even all that talented anyway IMO, & not one single thing about him makes me want to doubt all those women over the years. He can go be a PUA/MRA hero in the end, in the bowels of history it is where heâll end up.
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Because shut up. My PC-ness is bigger than yours, thatâs why.
Um⌠never mind.
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One could conceivably argue that the former normalises the latter
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What, my crazed screed made you not want to talk to me? LoL, he is accused & honestly I donât know why people are hung up on âIs spanish fly (whatever the fuck that isnât) like Rohypnol?!â Thatâs silly, the agent doesnât matter, you could give a woman (or a man) a strong ass piece of weed candy, if you didnât tell them what was in it & they laid down on your couch all fucked up you still shouldnât stick your dick in them because of that. Or Ambien, or a well made Long Island Iced Tea. Lots of things knock people down.
@adonai nails it in that post there. Also, there is no such thing as âwillful hyper-consentâ where a drug has been administered in such a manner. WTF who ever thought such a ⌠oh yeah, the past. In times past lots of people were stupid about things we hope to take for granted someday.
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No, I wasnât aware Cosby was accused by multiple women of rape. Although I still think Mark F could have chosen his words better, they make a lot more sense in this context.
But yeah, aphrodisiac != date rape drug IMO. Thereâs a difference between altering someoneâs inclinations with someoneâs knowledge, without their knowledge, and flat-out knocking them out.
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Spanish Fly is not a date rape drug.
The elephant in the room of this debate is that alcohol is the most common date rape drug.
It is so common that we barely bat an eyelid about the notion of buying drinks for people to ease them into having sex. Alcohol clouds judgement in such a way that by the time a person is drunk the distinction between whether it acts as an aphrodisiac or date rape drug becomes blurry to the point of being irrelevant. Getting drunk is so acceptable that victims of date rape will shrug it off, if not blaming it on themselves: âI shouldnât have drunk so much, I didnât know what I was doing.â
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Iâd disagree, both are substances specifically purported to away the free will / consent of the person being drugged to get them to engage in sex against their will, aka rape. The first takes away their mental ability to resist unwanted sexual advances, the second their physical ability to resist unwanted sexual advances. BOTH would be considered RAPE. While âspanish flyâ may not work as rumored, there are drugs like scopolamine that DO take away a persons free will and make them highly suggestible, that have been used for a number of rapes. There are other drugs as well that have a similar effect, so not only is it not a âfar-fetched fantasyâ, it isnât funny and actually happens.
no, but it was purported to be, which is the basis for the joke, the rumor was it would take away the persons free will to resist sexual advances by acting as a super powerful, irresistible, aphrodisiac.
I totally agree with alcohol being the most commonly used date rape drug. that is an excellent point.
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If we have to resort to mythological tales of non-effective potions to build up a testament of character against Cosby, then weâre on the wrong track. Why not stick to reality instead of mythology? Let the real victims and witnesses speak out against Cosby if necessary.
i agree, never suggested otherwise. i think enough women have come forward that a strong case can be made against him based on their collective testimonies.
this comedy piece certainly isnât court submissible and is anecdotal at best but it is most certainly pertinently interesting in light of recent allegations and has its place in the larger public discussion.
just because âspanish flyâ doesnât work as rumored doesnât change the mindset behind the idea of it, nor the fact that their are actual drugs that are quite unfortunately used to the same purpose. that combined with the current allegations make this comedy piece very applicable to sparking a meaningful conversation on the subject if that is what people choose to do with it, of course their will always be those that derail any meaningful conversation on the subject, but we shouldnât let them undermine the discussion as a whole.
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Most people have the weirdest fantasies, like killing their boss when theyâre having a bad day at work. A mindset isnât a concrete thing, nor does it prove anything. I certainly hope that mindsets, in and of themselves, never become criminalised.
You mentioned scopolamine upthread. The earliest known tale of scopolamine as a date rape drug occurs in the Bible, Genesis 30:14. If the mere telling of a mythological story about such a drug is considered condoning its use and a testament of criminal character then you might as well call Judaism and Christianity âdate rape cultsâ.
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once again, i am not making that argument. I too hope that we always have freedom of though, and understand the âglitchâ fantasy, like hey i could swerve into oncoming traffic right now or jump off this balcony, but fortunately most of us also have checks in place to stop those thoughts form becoming actions.
i think the testimonies of all the women coming forward is what will be important to the courts. 2 new women came forward today.
my only contention is that while NOT relevant to a trial in a court, this is relevant to the larger public discussion in light of the allegations, not as proof the man is guilty, but rather as a stepping stone to discussing the larger issues. it opens the conversation for things such as what constitutes rape, what is rape culture, what is acceptable in humor, how have cultural perspectives shifted over time, etc. it is appropriate for the larger public discussion, but certainly not for the courts, nor for the purpose of judging his innocence or guilt. i think that is a pretty sane viewpoint.
That argument has been made many times. The bible is full of fathers selling daughters for sex and as brides. all the hero kings kept slave concubines. mary was never asked if she wanted to be impregnated by god. yeah, it is full of horrible shit, genocides, mass murders, biggotry, killing of children, etc. which is why is is such a crappy moral guidebook. i personally donât find the bible relevant, it is especially not relevant to discussing modern social issues so i donât usually bring it into such conversations. BUT i did find the mandrake reference interesting, iâm very interested in historical ethnobotany, so thanks for the tip! 
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When that worthless tool does anything of value, let me know.
Cosby turned out to be a scumbag, but he did contribute in significant cultural ways. Tosh tells jokes that morons find funny.
The real victims did, all 13 of them, when Cosby settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. Being rich is awesome cuz you can buy your way out!
Also Iâd contend that more acts of rape have been comitted by followers of Judaism and Christianity than Atheism. Maybe we should call them âdate rape cultsâ?
The bottom line is this: If I were to be a widely-acclaimed comedian who joked about murdering prostitutes, that would be fine. If I did that and it turned out I was actually murdering prostitutes, my previous jokes would not be funny. I am the kind of person who loves offensive comedy and I really donât think thereâs a limit to what anyone can say in the context of comedy (the limit is if they can get out of the venue alive, I suppose) but when you joke about something (giving drugs to women for improved sex) and then are found to have done it on at least 14 occasions (during the late 90âs and 2000âs - how many times did this happen throughout his career!?) the humour is gone because itâs no longer a hypothetical mind game or story being told.
PS: I came here to say the same thing (spanish fly is not a date rape drug) but since so many of my fellow commenters had already pointed this out, it seemed unnecessary.
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A bit OT, but the mandrakes in Genesis 30 (or anywhere else in the Bible, for that matter) have nothing to do with date rape. In Song of Solomon, itâs apparently a kind of sweet-smelling aphrodisiac. In Genesis, itâs apparently used as a folk medicine to increase the chance of conception. In both references in the Bible, the woman is the one who sources the mandrakes, the man is specifically told about them and he was already planning to sleep with her (in the example you gave, Rachel agrees not to sleep with Jacob that night in exchange for the mandrakes). Not that there isnât highly objectionable sexual morality in the Bible, but the weirdness here seems to be about the two wives using their children and servants in the arms race to get the most children and influence over their collective husband.
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