Any argument against the EU is on its own pointless in the brexit debate. The question is not if the EU is perfect (*) but if the European nations as a whole are better off with it. It is the good old Nirvana fallacy again, the bane of political debate! The question is not if X perfect, just if X is better than not-X.
I often complain about my national government but I am not going to argue that my city should leave…
(Oh, and debating the fluctuations of an actual existing currency against those of a stagnant non-existing historical one? LOL)
(*It isn’t, by Glod and all that is unholy it ain’t!)
Yes, it exists, but it’s limited to certain projects and farm payments. compare this to the USA which is of a similar size to the EU. There’s a lot more spending going on at a federal level, backed by the full faith and credit of the US as a whole- one of the most notable items being social security- Imagine if the EU as a whole rather than the individual nations backed pension payments to all EU citizens at the same level.
To extend the metaphor further- compared to the USA, the EU seems to be at the “articles of confederation” stage, trying to sit uncomfortably between being an organisation of independent states, and being a true union. Eventually, the people of Europe are going to have to have a proper debate about what exactly they want for the future of the EU, and decide one way or the other, but there’s quite a few distractions from that process at the moment. There’s the whole subject of this thread, the problems caused by Poland and Hungary slipping away from democracy, the still unresolved legacy of the 2008 crisis, the migration issue, relations with Russia and the east, and so on…
TBF it’s not “the EU”, that won’t have that conversation, it’s the member states for various and different reasons. It’s not like the US as the member states have genuine, long standing, cultural, economic, and political heritages that can be utterly at variance. The EU is winning if they don’t fight wars against each other and drag the world into slaughter. It has to be taken from that perspective.
A large portion of Americans think all of Ireland is a UK holding and in active 70’s troubles revolt at all times. That the IRA are the unqualified good guys and 100% of Irish people support them whole heartedly.
What I’m saying is it could be worse.
I guess.
I think to do that they’d have to realize it’s not a thing anymore.
I’m more than technically English and I take the Office Space stance on the Brexit contingent and their ilk. “Why should I leave? They’re the ones who suck!”
