The ones on top afterwards were also usually on top before the emergency…
It’s hard to profiteer successfully without a fair bit of money and connections to start off with.
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My GP won’t let me have more than a month supply without advance notice, and I doubt that I would be allowed more than that if there is a shortage. As there is a small but non-zero chance that not having them might kill me I plan on leaving the country for a while and watching what happens from mainland Europe. Unfortunately this is not an option for most people.
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I hate to say this but on what basis would you be getting your meds in mainland Europe given this would be a ‘no-deal’ scenario and EHIC cards, etc. would go out of the window?
By converting my savings to euros. Most of what I take are generics so I don’t expect them to cost that much, It’s the doctor I expect to be a financial problem.
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eek.
I hope I never have to make that decision. And yes, heaven help those of us who don’t have the luxury of having a choice.
I agree. Joe Dirt won’t become Daddy Warbucks. But I don’t feel the fact that it’s the people already screwing us that screw us even more at times like those invalidates my points about the problem. (not that you were trying to do that (I just woke up))
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I’m not proposing it myself, but some on the left of the party have expressed legitimate concerns about the current democratic accountability of EU decision makers. They also want to move the EU away from its current neoliberal economic consensus to allow for reforms like better migrant worker protections within the Eurozone, a tax on financial transactions, a response to economic crises in member states other than austerity as default, a revision of the Stability and Growth Pact, an intellectual property regime that doesn’t put copyright maximalists and bed-wetting anti-terrorism concerns first.
All of these changes, unlike the complaints of the Leavers, are based in reality but none can be pushed by a country that just ragequit the whole shebang.
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Hey, wow, they actually seem like some useful things to think about, and I expect actually be negotiated. Too bad most people’s nuanced opinion of the EU stopped at the bendy bananas.
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The problem is that Corbyn came around to “Remain and Reform” far too late. He had the chance to take a leadership role during the referendum but instead his view at the time amounted to “let the Tories shoot themselves in the foot by leaving the EU (which I never really liked) and Labour will ride in and create a standalone 1960s/70s socialist paradise in Britain under my wise leadership.”
He’s not a banana-obsessed nutter but he’s complicit in his own way for selling out the futures of the UK’s young people.
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I guess insulin usage/consumption can be variable. For me to stockpile my pills that way I’d need to get my repeat persistently early (say a week or so) and after a year I’d have an extra four weeks’ supply on hand. Too hard. Let’s just hope that it doesn’t come to that, but if it does there’ll likely be civil disturbances. In fact if we crash out I fully expect to see riots in the streets in some cities next summer when food shortages kick in and prices skyrocket and the summer after when that 7% GDP fall starts to manifest itself. Frankly, I am starting to find this all a bit scary and wish there were some adults in power instead of what has for a long time looked more like squabbling schoolkids acting out Lord of the Flies themed awaydays.
While I can agree that profiteering is morally wrong (sort of depending on the degree). The point is that whether one is hording to resell or for yourself, the outcome is similar in that the scarce item ends up in less hands (see below).
Private hoarding secures yourself, but may result in others not obtaining what they need if you had not taken extra. And in defense of the profiteer, they at least are willing to redistribute the needed goods, thus more people get the item. And then things get murky when one initially secures extra for themselves, but ends up selling or trading part of it because they need/want what they can sell/trade it for. It may not have been their intent, yet the outcome similar.
If one secures extra items in times of NON scarcity, I too would consider that prepping. And actually if you secure extra in times of NON scarcity I don’t really have a problem with people reselling for some profit (within reason). Like I said, even most preppers may end up trading or reselling if the need or opportunity arises.
Finally, while I freely acknowledge how capitalism has its short comings and is rife with abuses, I still feel it is interesting to note that the idea of true communism, that one only takes what one needs, and socialism, where resources are fairly distributed, goes right out the window when people perceive scarcity and feel the need to secure extra for themselves and their family. Of course if everyone did that, it would result in more people without and the whole “living for the greater good” concept goes right out the window when harsh realities creep in.
I think that’s because the socialist and communist live-your-best-self attitudes of “take what you need” and “distribute resources fairly” are fundamentally incompatible with capitalist society’s compulsion to optimize Just-In-Time distribution and make as much money off of a crisis as possible. If people could trust corporations to continue to provide fair access to available resources during a shortage, I don’t think they would be compelled to stockpile nearly as much.
Instead, what inevitably happens is companies end up being just as bad as everyday people at forecasting demand, and start charging $20 for a single bottle of water, or $10,000 for a plane ticket out of a hurricane zone.
https://twitter.com/enemer95/status/1032428577805877248
(The plane ticket thing is particularly egregious, since those seats should be filled if possible, and they’re already going to be leaving the state anyway, and if airline companies didn’t bake the habit of intentionally over-booking flights into their infrastructure there wouldn’t even be much of a risk of stranding people. But instead of a fairer “first-come-first-served” system, only the wealthiest people on the island are being given the opportunity to buy a ticket.)
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Starting my reply at the end of yours…
I agree, no “-ism” is the answer as long as people are going to be people about things. Scarcity is scary, as are uncertainty and other people you don’t know.
Equal distribution of resources works fine as long as people are acting civilized. Once the animal brain kicks in, all bets are off until civility can be restored.
Because of how people are, you can’t be sure anyone else will have your best interests in mind when they react to a situation; in fact, it’s basically a given that they won’t… or at least that’s the point that is driven home again and again by media, leaders, scaremongers, etc. (looking at you, fucking Jones)
The chances of being financially gouged later by someone else who hoarded more than you creates a bit of a feedback loop:
“I only need 2 of these, but there are 10 there… Maybe I should buy 5 just in case… but then what if they are no longer available? Or someone starts selling the few left for 10x the price they are now? I would be crazy not to get all 10 right now! If I don’t need them all, I can sell the rest later. It’ll work out, but only if I make sure to take care of myself first.”
Shit, just look at Cabbage Patch Kids, Beanie Babies, Tickle-Me Elmo, or tulips. And none of those had lives on the line.
I posit that loop would be less likely to exist without our brand of capitalism; if we had iron clad laws against price-gouging in emergency situations, I believe things wouldn’t get so pear shaped.
But our laws are consistently sidestepped by the wealthy; mo’ money, fewer restrictions. How many bankers ended up in jail for jacking up the economy due to their shenanigans back in ’08? When there’s no real threat of reprisal, you would have to be a god damned moron not to do it if you can.
Unless you look at the scale of the situation. An individual isn’t going to hoard 5,000 epipens, but a profiteer might, if given the opportunity and motivation. It’s a pretty solid return on their investment, as long as the economy doesn’t collapse; and if it does, heck, the barter system should keep them golden.
I can pretty much guarantee that if someone is hoarding for personal use, they won’t take as much as someone hoping to make a profit later; unless they are planning to profiteer later as well. Again, scale.
Yeah. That guy. But again, scale. Unless this was a prepper with a YUGE bunker, he would still have only so many of any given thing.
If it was a well funded profiteer, he could have warehouses full of the stuff and he won’t get it to the people that need it until his price is met.
I feel like that is a paper tiger argument, especially when we talk about things like medications. Not everyone is going to need the medication, so not everyone will be hoarding it.
Without the profit motivation to hoard, people that didn’t need it wouldn’t hoard it.
And if you do need the medication and you didn’t have to worry about some asshat coming along and hoovering up all the meds you need to live, to sell back to you at a steep markup later when you really need it, you aren’t as likely to hoard every bit you can get your hands on either. When desperation fills your head, rationality departs.
But as long as our governments are working to protect the haves, and give no fucks about the have-nots, NOBODY is going to trust ANYBODY until they are in the shit and can see that person can be trusted. And with crap like this:
NOBODY should be trusting the US federal government right now.
Due to your disparaging remark toward me that initially set me off:
I get that you are a fan of capitalism.
Believe it or not, I see value in it as well. Just not in how we practice it in this country. It has some major flaws that can’t be easily fixed because they have become so entrenched over the decades/centuries – it’s the water and we are the fish – and the people that we put in charge that can try to fix it are so crooked and self serving that it beggars belief.
If Rumpelstiltskin appeared before Congress and told them he had a way to spin poor people into gold, I don’t think a single one of them would hesitate to break out a spinning wheel; especially if they saw an opponent already spinning.
I’m no fan of religions, and only have a passing knowledge of the Bible, but this verse just resonates anytime I look at shit that’s wrong with our world and I give it some thought:
(For) the love of money is the root of all evil… - Timothy 6:10 KJV
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It’s like the weather, you can forecast general trends, but you can’t tell in January when or where a hurricane is going to hit in August.
And I heard on the radio the plane prices went up so high from the algorithm that sets prices. You have hundreds (thousands?) of people checking the price of the last 4 seats, and the price runs away on you. I heard the actual ticket price bought the day of was much less.
Unfortunately when it comes to even government services, it is rarely “first come, first served”. Where you are in the pecking order helps.
I basically agree.
That illustrates I think why some people are hesitant to move to more socialized programs. Because who gets what is no longer in their hands. Granted, that isn’t really the case now, but you at least FEEL like you have a sense of agency. If you know someone on medicaid or VA benefits who has been jerked around you can understand the frustration there. And before you point it out, yes, the same things happen with private insurance. I never said humans were consistent.
Though in our example we should be dealing with NHS, socialize medicine, yes?
That’s market speculation on a commodity. The value of these things, needed or not, hinges on supply and demand and people guess on whether these things will happen. Had I known then what I know now, I could buy me a house by keeping and buying some Magic cards in the 90s.
Need to add in amount limitations as well. Because people buy as much as they can when something gets scarce not as much as they need.
True, but if a thousand people hoard 5 pens each, then we end up with 4000 less people who will get one. And one might think keeping 5 pens is reasonable, not wanting to sell, give, or trade one away. Profiteers don’t want to KEEP 5000 extra pens, they want to sell them. If this is a hyper inflated price, then yeah, it’s scummy. If the price is where 5000 people can afford one then at least you have 5000 people who have one now. Though you could end up with 1000 people buying 5, just at the inflated price, and we are at square one again.
True, but if that wasn’t a concern, then we wouldn’t be warning of upcoming scarcity. As we established, when people think there won’t be enough, they take more.
Getting back to this specific case, first off you aren’t going to get the average person able to buy large quantities of prescription drugs to resell, so profiteering isn’t as big of a concern. My original reply was to a person noting the mixed messages of “distributors and pharmacies, buy extra; regular people, buy what you need, only”. I still contend that is good advice for the reasons I first stated. These are the pharmacies and their suppliers who typically sell these drugs, not profiteers wedging in to make a buck.
Well I agree with you there.
I admit I was stirring the pot, but not trying to be disparaging. I just find simplified knee jerk reactions that lay blame on this or that need to be called out to be thought about. Especially when people are bemoaning capitalism and the NHS is a socialized medicine system. Sure, they have to buy the drugs from capitalists, but they also help set the prices, IIRC (I know Canada does price negotiations and one reason their meds are cheaper.)
Don’t worry, when people blame socialism for Venezuelans woes, I point out it really has little to nothing to do with socialism.
I also agree that that “pure” capitalism has flaws and checks and balances are needed, and the US is inconsistent with those.
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