British parliament rejects Brexit deal again, this time by 149 votes


#81

Britain seems cognitively incapable of making a decision with more than two choices.

So far, it’s “NO!” on everything, including the status quo, and the previous status quo, and the one before that …


#82

GM: “EU, roll 2D20 for damage to the UK, and also roll 1D12 splash damage to yourself.”


#83

And therein lies a big part of the problem…the opinion of every two-bit ‘media-personality’ carries far more weight than the actual experts on the actual deadly-important matters in question, be they vaccination, climate change, or stupid fucking Brexit. The experts predicted a shit-show and lo and behold! It’s a shit-show! We’re laughing our way towards Bethlehem…


#84

They need to swing things by 3%, a relative handful. That’s worth another try, and beats the alternative – especially since a lot of people do seem to regret voting Leave. I’d wager that most of the people in that studio audience who raised their hands voted Leave last time, and that the vast majority of the ones who didn’t raise their hands voted Remain.

In any case, my point is not to predict the outcome, but to note that a second referendum is the only good reason for an extension. Anything else is just prolonging the agony.

Two choices and six weeks maximum for the campaigns are all that’s needed. May and Corbyn will bungle or deliberately tank their attempts to convince people to see reason, Farage and Johnson and Rees-Mogg will lie to the rubes again, Putin will interfere again, social media will enable the bad actors again, but it’s still worth a shot. No extension at all means a hard Brexit at this point.

If they screw up a second time and vote Leave again (on either May’s unworkable deal or no deal at all), I’m done worrying about it. The outcome of another Leave victory will be the same disaster as it would be if things are left to play out as-is.

If the outcome is Remain then the Know-Nothings will complain about the elites for two weeks and then go back to the hateful and petty little provincial lives they’re already familiar with. Meanwhile, one hopes the reality-based community in the UK and on the Continent will try to forget this nonsense ever happened.


#85

And if a second referendum comes out remain it undercuts every other leave movement in the EU.


#86

That’s a good point with a second referendum, who actually leads remain?

May was selected to lead the Brexit, she can’t really campaign for the remain side, and Corbyn seems to have a reluctant remain campaigner. If May calls a second referendum she probably needs to stay out of the limelight to let other’s in the party lead the campaign and she might even resign at the end of it.


#87

But the IRA love anyone who hates the English, and who hates the English like the Scottish?


#88

Not exactly.


#89

It’s been a bit difficult to understand Brexit in the US due to some of the jargon, such as “Article 50” and the “backstop” not getting a very clear explanation in the US news. (Wikipedia to the rescue!) About the best NPR has done is to ask some businessmen and women to explain why they don’t want to be part of the E.U., and it usually comes down to complaints about this or that bureaucratic regulation that membership in the E.U. imposes – for example, IIRC, making it harder for English fishermen to turn a profit because they have to share their fishing grounds with other E.U. member states.

As far as Ireland goes, I was really surprised when the two sides agreed to a peace deal in the late 90’s. My (probably way oversimplified) thinking comes down to this: Ireland is an island. The Irish really, really like having control over their own territory. There’s not going to be long-lasting peace between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland until the island is unified. In the meantime, it’s understandable how no longer having a soft border would reopen some old grievances.

And why the hell is Jeremy Corbyn doing calling himself a Labour Party leader when he’s pro-Brexit? That makes absolutely no sense.


#90

Right. For that they need an electoral college.


#91

In the 1970s the Labour left were generally anti EU (then the EEC), and the Conservative party were generally in favour of it.

That all changed when Jacques Delors was president of the EEC and moved it to the left, but some of the old Labour left (like Corbyn) didn’t change their views.


#92

Telling 49% of the voters that their opinions don’t matter is evidently fine, perhaps on the principle that those are the responsible 49%.


#93

I am fairly certain it does.


#94

Well, can you hear this?


#95

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=208636&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=1087903

I think that is definitive.


#96

IRA 2.0 - so played out it fits.


#97

Just FTR, I have a friend who texted me yesterday when the “news” broke:

I predict a riot.

I am still of the opinion that someone would need to open an official registration to hand out pitchforks. But I can imagine a queue forming in front of it if someone does.

However, I’m not British.
I just liked parts of their culture while it lasted.


#98

The UK is essentially 4 nations within a nation, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, and England. The Union Jack is an amalgamation of their four flags.

The best outcome I can see at this point is for Northern Ireland to seek to leave the UK and remain within the EU, similar to what Scotland has been attempting in various political movements in the past few years (ironically, part of the case the UK made against Scotland leaving was that they’d fight against their remaining in the EU, but that’s certainly a defenestrated argument at this point). This way NI can go back to the status quo for the most part as far as peace and their economy is concerned.


#99

I hope they extend the deadline indefinitely, just so we can keep watching this shitshow. GoT has nothing on tuesday evenings in Westminster. MVP is obviously Bercow, he has way too much fun with these clowns.


#100

Maybe, if you think a revival of the UDA is the best outcome.


Personally I can think of better things that I don’t ever want to happen.