The point is that I can’t figure out any kind of coherent theological explanation for why God would require the bread they transform into some kind of spiritual equivalent of human flesh to be made from wheat, instead of rice or corn flour, when the point of the ritual is the shared spiritual experience of taking into your body a part of your God. “Tradition” isn’t actually an explanation or justification for anything. It’s the logical equivalent of saying “because I said so”.
Obviously she’s not required to take part in it (especially since we’re not catholic) but I think that catholics WANT to take part and if they don’t, they’re seen by the community as somehow separate or outside the faith community. I used to be married to a woman who was catholic at the time (we’re no longer married and she’s no longer catholic) and the few times I went with her to church and sat there in the pew while she went up and took communion, I had the feeling like everyone else was looking at me like, “Hmm, what’s going on with him that he’s not doing the same thing as the rest of us?” This must be even stronger for people who are actually part of that faith community, which I was not.
A catholic who has Celiac or other gluten intolerance ought to be able to take part in the rituals of their faith whenever reasonably possible. This isn’t about a physical incapability, which, yes, disabled people have to miss out on. It’s like they built the church without a wheelchair ramp and then insisted that walking up the stairs was part of their sacred faith traditions that couldn’t be changed. Come on now.
Food that is certified gluten free really should not have any trace amounts of gluten in it. The purpose of certification is to assure that all steps of production are carried out in such a way that no wheat, rye, barley, or other sources of gluten can get into it. If there is gluten present, then the process has a major flaw in it and the certification is no longer valid. It’s like Kosher – the certifying authorities examine the process to make sure the proper procedures are followed. If those procedures are faithfully followed, then the chances of gluten getting into the final product is negligible. Of course humans are fallible and sometimes the proper procedures are not followed, and as a result gluten contamination happens, but buying certified gluten-free products gives you about the same level of confidence that this isn’t going to happen, as buying certified USDA beef gives you confidence that this supposed beef isn’t actually pork or mutton or something.
We did. It was the type of bread used at the last supper, which is the unleavened bread used at Passover.
Conversely the reason to not use the same bread seems to be because “an outsider said so”.
Look, when it comes to this sort of thing like “what kind of bread” it was figured out A LONG time ago, and I am sure if one delved into this history there is literally a small mountain of documents on the subject - probably mostly in Latin.
One thing the Church has more experience at than anyone else is theocratic scholarship. If you think 2017 is the first time someone dared ask, “What kind of bread do we use and why?” then you don’t realize how much free time monks had on their hands before the invention of TV.
So yes, ample theological explanations on what kind of bread. And the article gave the explanation on why they think gluten is part of what makes bread bread. Again, one must draw a line somewhere, there it is.
Look, the Catholic have a lot of rule and rituals, many of them over a thousands of years old. Lots of Catholics would love to have a beach wedding. Well, they can’t. You can’t have a Catholic wedding anywhere but a church. I personally don’t like needing to go to confession before receiving the Eucharist, but that is their rule so I am going to adhere to it. That too is backed up by reams of “why we do it this way.” One may not agree with what they do traditions wise, but they back up every last bit of it if one takes the time to do the research. (Though if one wants to find the person most ignorant of “why”, find a life long Catholic, a some how many of them never learned it.)
Perhaps it was food labeled as gluten free not actually certified as such that the articles I saw warned about. i.e. a pizza place or local bakery.
That makes no sense, though. It’s supposed to be a fucking miracle, God can do anything they want to do, and the fact that the last supper involved wheat bread doesn’t mean there’s something magical about wheat, it’s just the type of bread they had available at the time. You’re acting like this is Dungeons and Dragons and you have to have the right material component for the spell or it fails. Pure superstition and nonsense.
Wow, interesting. I’d have imagined that since the physical item itself is not the important aspect of it, it wouldn’t matter if it got dirty etc… That since the “real” aspect (and most important bits) are the spiritual/mystical aspect of it, that something physical like dirt couldn’t possibly sully it’s nature, and it would be an “eat it anyway” sort of thing. That may be a weird Buddhist point of view that the physical nature of things is transient and doesn’t truly reflect their true essence though…
There is a bit more practically for health reasons. For the same reasons, it is now highly discouraged for you to take the wine if you’ve had anything contagious recently like cold, flu, mono, etc. Sanitation was not a first concern in the medieval church and there are stories of saints doing some pretty gross stuff like licking sores or ingesting pus. That kind of thing, along with self mortification is no longer accepted.
The traditions do change over time. It used to be that the priest laid the wafer directly on your tongue, and this is still done in some cases. But now you can take it if you position your hands correctly, hands cupped, left over right, and place the wafer in your mouth with the right hand. Either way you make the sign of the cross after.
Wine isn’t always offered anymore either, it depends on the parish and the occasion. But wine is always blessed and drunk by the priest as part of the sacrament even if it’s not offered to the congregation.
Gluten free foods, and other allergens, tend to have better labeling than shellfish. Shellfish while always labeled in the ingredients it doesn’t usually have a “This product contains shellfish” warning or an icon, etc. There’s been many instances where i almost bought certain packaged foods and saved myself by randomly looking at the ingredients.
Also restaurants aren’t great with that same kind of labeling either, and cross-contamination does happen as well. Thankfully i’m not extremely sensitive to shellfish but i can tell when my food is prepped on the same surfaces.
[quote=“nytespryte, post:106, topic:104235”]
Wine isn’t always offered anymore either, it depends on the parish and the occasion. But wine is always blessed and drunk by the priest as part of the sacrament even if it’s not offered to the congregation
[/quote]I was raised in Venezuela and went to various catholic churches during my upbringing. There the priest offers the wafer to congregants or he can place it on their tongue, and definitely no one but the priest (and sometimes also other altar servers) drinks the wine. The only time in my life i drank some of the sacramental wine was during my confirmation.
I don’t know if this is the MO for the catholic church in Latin America in general or what.
Most if the masses I attended were at my local church in New Orleans east where I also went to school and offering wine was occasional. I don’t remember the real frequency anymore, although I remember they never did it for school masses or at the masses where the children’s choir sang. I can’t remember the real frequency anymore.
I also can’t remember if it was ever offered at St Louis Cathedral, except when I made my confirmation there. I remember once having to have the wafer placed on my tongue by the priest but I can’t remember if that was confirmation or some other thing. Might have also been a midnight mass somewhere else that my aunt took me to. I do remember a church with kneelers in the front for that tradition.
Though they can even posthumously assume you did repent in your lifetime/on your deathbed and rehabilitate you. Ah, well, heavens no, I hope no-one ever baptises me…
