Can gluten-free bread transubstantiate?


#1

Originally published at: http://boingboing.net/2017/07/10/solemnity-of-the-most-holy-bod.html


#2

This is why I started to stop being a Catholic.


#3

I honestly want to learn more about the person who believes in the whole nine yards, virgin birth, Holy Trinity, Adam & Eve, Noah’s Ark, etc., but for whom gluten-free transubstantiation is just a bridge too far.


#4

No gluten, no protein = no body & blood?

Its freaking symbolic anyway. Geez. Cannibal poseurs.


#5

Shrug. They are trying to approach it from a logical view point. What is “bread”? Once defined, can you really change that definition just because? If this sorta bread it ok, why not something else? It’s how traditions get watered down and perverted over time.

The Catholics aren’t perfect, but at least they try to apply some logic to their doctrines. This, of course, gets them in trouble with the Evangelicals with things like the Immaculate Conception, and non-sola scriptura.

Their views on the Old Testament aren’t hard line literal like other sects.


#6

If it transubstantiates, why would it need to be gluten-free?


#7

The substance changes, but not the accidents.


#8

Of course. It becomes obvious in the German Luther translation of the old testament. Observe that in Nehemiah 8:10, while the prophet Ezra demands that the Israelites

:de: Geht hin und esst fette Speisen und trinkt süße Getränke
:uk: Go, eat fat food, and drink sweet drinks

he also very clearly states that

:de: die Freude am HERRN ist eure Stärke.
:uk: the joy of the LORD is your starch.

and not the protein.


#9

This sounds like a job for the Flying Spaghetti Monster!


#10

Slight correction: The occasion of this new letter appears to be that more and more dioceses are outsourcing the manufacture of hosts to for-profit companies, instead of using the traditional church-owned host factories run by monks/nuns. Roche is worried that the for-profit host making outfits will put profit above devotion, especially in regard to non-traditional hosts made for those who require gluten/alcohol free bread/wine for their sacraments.


#11

I think most people would find it hard to believe that gluten-free wafers could transubstantiate into the body of Christ.


#12

[quote=“DerekChan, post:4, topic:104235, full:true”]Its freaking symbolic anyway. Geez. [/quote]Not if you’re Catholic. It’s part of the canon dogma.

“According to Catholic teaching, the whole of Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity, is in the sacrament, under each of the appearances of bread and wine and in each part of the appearances of bread and wine (since the substance of bread or wine is in each part of ordinary bread or wine, and the substance of Christ is in each part of the consecrated and transubstantiated elements of the host and the cup of the sacrament), but he is not in the sacrament as in a place and is not moved when the sacrament is moved. He is perceptible neither by the sense nor by the imagination, but only by the intellectual eye.”

If you search through the article, the word “symbolic” is only used once (in reference to Anglicans/COE, the filthy heretics), and any priest will deny it is symbolic.


#13

So, Necco Wafers are fine then? :wink:


#14

Some people are allergic to our lord.


#15

Because the transformation of the host happens on a mystical level, not a physical one.

Yes, Catholic doctrine doubles down on the host really, truly, actually becoming the body of Christ, rather than only being a symbol as claimed by most Protestant sects. That does not mean that catholic theologians are stupid people who cannot tell the difference in taste between wafers of wheat and wafers of meat. To outsiders, especially centuries removed from the religious wars of the reformation, a symbolic vs a mystical transformation seems like a hair splitting distinction without a difference. Just remember that the difference mattered deeply enough in the 16th and 17th centuries that millions of people all over Europe died for it.


#16

My head hurts. So much mental gymnastics there.


#17

[quote=“Glaurung, post:10, topic:104235”]Slight correction: The occasion of this new letter appears to be that more and more dioceses are outsourcing the manufacture of hosts to for-profit companies, instead of using the traditional church-owned host factories run by monks/nuns.[/quote]Previously:


#18

If you differ in opinion enough, schism.

Next, let’s talk about the proper way to baptize.


#19

Of course it can, and I’m not even Catholic.

Bread does not cause miracles. God does.


#20

The thing to consider here is that the current form of the Eucharist as we know it more than likely did not exist during the time of Jesus. If the story is true of him doing the sacrament then he used regular bread, and also i am pretty sure that he would not have been particularly picky over the kind of bread. The whole exercise is symbolic and what goes in it is completely besides the point.

This is clearly a case of organized religion tripping over itself because of their desire to adhere to rules they’ve made up for themselves rather than follow the spirit of their beliefs.