Car crash video: tailgaters suck, but so do brake-checkers

Buy a motorcycle and move to California? (Or Australia, lane filtering is legal in all of the Eastern states here now).

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No, I donā€™t think they share equal guilt. I think though when ever someone is being aggressive, the smart thing to do is to TRY to diffuse and avoid, not spark something to make it worse.

First off, with your analogy, we have to change things around. A weapon like a gun or a knife would be viewed as a direct threat. Brandishing both weapons like that is a crime in the US. A direct deadly threat I think warrants more direct action.

But letā€™s just say you have some big guy come up and get real close to you and say ā€œmoveā€ or ā€œwalk fasterā€, possibly adding a threat of violence. There in lies the grey area. What do you do? Let the aggressive person go by? Refuse? Attack him first? Sure, this guy has no right to bully you, but being an aggressive asshole canā€™t always be made in to a criminal act. Out side of your car, I bet 9 time out of 10 you would, and should, just let the person go by. You may be in the right, but why escalate things to where you might get hurt or killed?

As for tailgating in a car, I disagree someone tail gating me is threatening my life, and I think the law says the same thing. Is it dangerous? Sure. So is it when some guy flies by you 15mph faster and you are already 10mph over the limit.

I donā€™t know if there are tailgating laws on the books. I bet it varies from state to state. I would agree that if done on purpose it should be a criminal offense. Of course it is rather hard to catch something like this. You nearly have to be in the traffic to spot it. I do know many states have catch all laws where something like that could result in being pulled over for reckless driving.

They didnā€™t ā€œpurposefully cause a crashā€ - they MAY have purposefully braked to get the tailgater off their back. They may also have seen some debris in the road or had other reasons to brake. The crash happened because the tailgater was following too closely. One car length is UNQUESTIONABLY too close at any speeds over 10 mph.

As for your article - all of the reasons cited that the front car might have committed assault are ALSO true of the tailgating car:

  1. That the REAR car driver committed an act with the intent to place the driver of the FRONT car in fear of immediate physical harm;
  2. That the REAR car driver had the apparent ability at the time of the action to actually cause physical harm;
  3. That the driver of the FRONT car (or any other person in the area) was reasonably put in fear of physical harm; and
  4. That the REAR car driver was not legally justified, or acting in self defense.

Only with #4 - the FRONT car could be argued to be acting in self-defense as the tailgater has committed assault FIRST by endangering the FRONT driver first.

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You are right. There is no law stating that. Locals and police simply call it that which is why the TXDOT website refers to it as a fast lane.

That sounds great and all but according to one of the links you have posted here, most states do not in fact have laws stating you can only use the left for passing.

A few states permit use of the left lane only for passing or turning left. These have ā€œyesā€ in the ā€œkeep rightā€ column.

That link shows that only 8 have laws that only allow for left lane use during passing or road obstruction.

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The better thing to do instead of brake checking is to simply take your foot off the gas and slowly slow down. The tailgater will have time to adjust their speed or choose to pass you another way. And then if they do happen to ram into the back of you, itā€™s at a lower (safer) speed.

Iā€™ve been doing 70 on the highway (in high traffic where I couldnā€™t change lanes) when someone tailgated within about 5 feet of my bumper. I simply took my foot off the gas and let him hang behind me until I slowed all the way down to 25 mph. Then there was an opening in the right lane, so he pulled around and passed me. I just sped back up after that.

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Noā€¦ Iā€™d end up a greasy streak on the interstateā€¦
(and Iā€™m talking about the fact Iā€™d be likely to speed excessively, not someone hitting me.)

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Sometimes I wish the ā€œTombstoneā€ was a factory option:

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WHY?!?!?!?!?

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They purposefully performed an action that caused a crash. There wasnā€™t debris, they didnā€™t swerve, there was plenty of space in between them and the next car. There is no question that the tailgater was in the wrong but the brake checker was just as much in the wrongā€¦ especially if they brake checked to get him to ā€œback offā€. Two wrongs donā€™t make a right and there have been cases where someone brake checking has led to the checker having criminal charges filed against them. Itā€™s also possible the brake checker was trying to cause an accident to commit insurance fraud. Wouldnā€™t the more reasonable approach to a tailgater be to give yourself more space between you and the car in front of you and then just move over to the right lane when you get a chance? Brake checking is not a reasonable or safe thing to do. Why escalate the situation and potentially cause an accident?

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ā€œTo teach them a lessonā€, of course! :stuck_out_tongue:

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I just lay on the windshield wiper fluid ā€¦ get that windshield REALLY clean. Works best if tailgater is in a convertible.

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When someone is tailgating me Iā€™ll make sure that there is plenty of space between me and the next car in front of me and keep my speed until I find an opportunity to move over to the right lane, when I see that opportunity Iā€™ll signal way a head of time and then move over and let them pass. I donā€™t think slowing down to 25mph on an interstate or highway is really a good idea.

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99 times out of 100, thatā€™s what I do. You want to hang on my bumper because reasons? Then letā€™s take this road slowly and carefully. Alrightythen.

1 time out of 100, Iā€™ll do an automotive pick and roll on the tailgater. Bait them into trying to pass at a stupid place, then give my vehicle enough gas to keep the front bumper even with the tailgaterā€™s driverā€™s window, and laugh when they have to hit the brakes to avoid the car ahead. Itā€™s always more fun and certainly more dangerous and definitely juvenile and at least 1 time out of 100, IDGAF.

And if youā€™ve got two vehicles with drivers familiar with one another? Box in the tailgater, drop to 10mph under the limit, and hold them there for as long as you please. Makes people pretty mad, though.

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So you have divined the tailgateeā€™s intent, and

  1. he knew he was being tailgated, and
  2. had no reason to tap his brakes other than to scare the tailgater, and
  3. he planned that the tailgater would
  4. slow enough not to endanger him, but would
  5. overreact, then lose control and crash, but
  6. not in a way that would endanger him.
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All but but two states have laws that dictate that slower traffic keeps right.

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Thatā€™s what I saw too. Texas is one of those slower traffic keep right states. This is how we got the terms slow and fast lanes to begin with. Yet only 8 states have laws stating the left lane is for passing only.

I only came here to say that Texas was not such a state. But thanks to the links you provided, I learned that the truth is that most states are like Texas and that only 8 states say the left is for passing only and that people who say itā€™s common and we all should only use the left for passing are full of crap.

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The question remains, why not?
In the situation on the video, the left lane was occupied because there was another car about to merge into it from the left; the ā€œbrake-checkerā€ was already slowing down, but the tailgater kept the distance down at dangerously close. What ways of getting out of the danger heā€™s being put in were left at this point?

That is true of many things done in self-defence. When someone assaults me, me assaulting them in turn is usually considered self-defence.

I donā€™t see that. If you look at the time between when the brake lights light up and when the crash happens, thatā€™s more than a second. It looks like the front driver was applying the brakes as softly as possible in order to slow down further. Mostly just lighting up the lights. Otherwise, the crash would have happened immediately.

Definitely. Doing the smart thing, being the bigger person, etc. Itā€™s what I prefer to do as well.
But in a situation where person A is threatens person B, person B is too dumb to deescalate, and then somebody gets hurt, I do tend to limit my blame to person A.

Of course not. But neither is going any faster when thereā€™s another car a couple of feet behind you. If thereā€™s a chance to merge right away, sure, but I will not keep going at unsafe speeds if I can help it.

So as far as Austrian law is concerned, the prison term applies to the actual threat, that is, ā€œI want something from you and therefore Iā€™m going to make you scared until I get what I wantā€. Iā€™m sure that most cases get thrown out because thatā€™s quite hard to prove in traffic, because ā€œIā€™m stupid and therefore I was needlessly endangering your lifeā€ just earns you a fine.

According to the link that @gethoht posted earlier, similar laws exist in the US, though in that article theyā€™re being applied to the other side.

You forgot the rest of the world. Itā€™s a pretty common law around the world, I think. You should all keep right whenever thereā€™s no reason to move to the left. And you should never, never, never ever pass on the right. Thatā€™s the most scary thing abort US traffic for tourists like me. Especially when combined with the huge blind spot the Dodge I rented last time I visited the US.

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The checker had plenty of space betweeen them and the next car
They didnā€™t swerve at all (to avoid debris, whatever)
They didnā€™t remain on the brakes for more than a tap
No one else slammed on their brakes at the same time
Doesnā€™t matter that the checker didnā€™t crash, proves nothing

From a legal perspective it doesnā€™t even matter if the brake checker intended to cause a crash, they could still be found possibly liable both civilly and criminally depending on the state.

If the brake checker slammed on their brakes to prevent an accident or avoid debris then yeah fine, they wouldnā€™t be at fault. Thereā€™s also nothing to indicate that is the case. It appears that they just brake checked to get the tailgater to back off. That act in and of itself could be construed as something criminal depending on the state.

Tailgating is illegal and stupid, brake checking is illegal and stupid. If someone is tailgating you why not just give yourself room between the car in front you and wait for a time to get in the right lane for them to pass. Why perform an extremely aggressive act that could potentially cause an accident?

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Bingo.

Never admit fault.

Be a decent person, try to help out, but at all times your comment is ā€œI was trying to drive safely.ā€

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All but two actively say slower traffic keep right or go farther than that. So if youā€™re on a fucking highway stay in the right fucking lane unless youā€™re passing, avoiding merging traffic, etc.