Just FYI, Rajoy was ousted as Prime Minister more than one year ago, after verdicts in a cause of corruption were announced, and he is not even the PP candidate anymore. He was replaced as Prime Minister by the socialist Pedro Sanchez, with the supporting votes of the Catalonian separatists, who currently also control the regional government.
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And buried amongst unknown soldiers who fought against fascism (as well as for it) in the Spanish Civil War. That’s ugly.
Somehow I’m guessing the People’s Party is one of those that oppose throwing Franco’s corpse into the sea where it belongs and also opposes removing state funding from the foundation that honours his fascist values.
Thanks for filling me in on the details (@smooth, too). Based on this story, it doesn’t sound like Sanchez is doing much better handling this. Are the sedition charges and sentences a carryover from Rajoy in terms of the judges and state prosecutors?
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In Spain, like in other European countries, prosecutors and judges are supposed to be independent from the government. The sentence actually agreed with the lesser charges proposed by the current government’s attorney.
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Thanks again. As @smooth mentioned above, I know Rajoy and the PP meddled with the independent judiciary, but if that’s back to normal then it’s hard to blame them. Obviously, Catalans aren’t happy with these lesser charges from the Socialists, either. I hope things don’t escalate beyond the general strike stage.
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Meanwhile the grotesque neoliberal experiment that’s Chile, that oh so overpraised posterchild of stability and progress in Latin America (according to neocons), is finally collapsing… but it looks like BB doesn’t really care much for the South…
Sorry to post this here, but since we’re talking about social unrest… eh…
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Thank you for posting this.
Maybe you should submit the link to BB editors? IMO it fits quite well with news @doctorow posts here.
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Before the economic crisis, independence was 15% after the crisis, 47% franco had been dead for many years.
Catalan independentists use Franco as a kind of icon to attract the sympathy of poorly informed Democrats.
There is an openly Francoist party in Spain, Falanje de las jons, and has never released a deputy since democracy exists in Spain.
There are small groups of Francoist ultras, in approximately the same amount that violent groups exist worldwide.
On the other hand, Franco did not repress Catalonia more than the rest of Spain, repressed all Spain equally, with the difference that it was Frank who made Catalonia richer by establishing heavy industry there and removing it from the south.
In your country is independence allowed?
probably not
In your country you can not make referendums that attack their territorial integrity or promulgate the elimination of human rights.
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Blockquote … I ask why separate!! … Which I suspected. Latent racism.
How do you apply this logic to other situations world wide? The Kurds want their own country. But Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq won’t let them. In this situation the Kurds are the racists while Ankara, Damascus etc are promoting heart warming inclusiveness?
And the old European run empires? Did Britain annex India in the spirit of love for all things Indian? And what a bunch of filthy racists those Africans must have been when they called for independence.
And how about neighbouring countries that used to be united? The Czech Republic and Slovakia, or Sweden and Norway. Where I see amicable neighbours who have managed to stay friends because they had the good sense to divorce before things turned nasty, I guess you see a cesspool of hate and racism?
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Yes, they were
But let’s be honest, all nation states are illegitimate, relying on coercion and violence to keep the remnants of feudalism going in the modern day.
Catalonia are the lesser of the two evils.
Edit: I will get the right articles eventually
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“Frank who made Catalonia richer by establishing heavy industry there and removing it from the south.“ The good old “he was a genocidal dictator but he was good for the economy” argument.
There are still people in Spain that still believe in the myths created during the dictatorship, and see fascism and authoritarism as a legitimate form of government.
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I would legitimize it in Catalonia and it would make it unlawful in the south. This is nonsense.
The biggest killings took place in the south where battle was planted. Catalonia just gave up.
Malaga was an industrial pole until frankly ended it.
Imagine the reaction in Western media if this footage came from Venezuela or Hong Kong:
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At ca 18:00; hitting what looks to be a teenage girl that is running away from him.
I bet that if you tested the sewage coming from the barracks where these guys are staying you’d find not insignificant traces of cocaine and amphetamines.
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So lower tax burden on the relatively rich Catalonia and get the rest of Spain to pay its own tab.
Is this idea somehow progressive only in Catalonia?
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I don’t know if it’s even lowering their tax burden. Wealthy regions usually end up subsidising poorer regions as part of being the same nation-state (certainly the case in the U.S., where CA and NY support backwards states like MS and AL). It sounds from what I’m hearing in this topic that the problem is Catalonia is not getting adequate investment from the central government in return.
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If Catalonia were to become independent, the Barroso doctrine would mean that they would instantly lose EU membership, and all trade agreements that accompany that. They could reapply under Article 49 of the EU treaty, but even if they were allowed to jump the queue of other states whose applications are being considered, it would probably take at least 5 years (this is the number I’ve seen in discussions about Scotland), and the EU Council would have to give unanimous consent. With Spain a Council member, that is unlikely.
If the population is willing to endure what is essentially a hard Brexit in order to get their independence, probably they should have that right, but I would hope that the process would be more careful than the one that landed the UK in its current mess. In particular, any referendum should be accompanied by a clear and honest accounting of the economic consequences of separation.
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That’s why I think an autonomous status recognising nationality within Spain would be the better course for Catalonia, assuming that they can work out the economic issues. When I travelled in the Basque country, people there told me that being part of the EU and on the Euro were factors that made their current situation (an autonomous region partially in Spain and partially in France, with Basque people subject to jurisdiction by geography) possible. Catalonia has different issues, I’m sure, but they seem to be asking for a similar arrangement.
It also sounds like Catalans provide a counterbalance to right-wing and Francoist forces in the rest of the country, which is something that’s good for the entire country.
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And it’s not accurate when used about Scotland either. Both Scotland and Catalunya are currently in complete alignment with EU rules and regulations, so the timetables for accession which have been developed to integrate non-members from central and eastern Europe are unnecessarily long. The only issue with the Catalan application would be the prospect of the rump Castillian government using what influence it has to block and frustrate the process, in a fit of jilted pique.
This argument is essentially terrorism from Madrid- Do what we say or else we will do everything we can to make life unpleasant for you.
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