The only correct answer.
Asserting that the only value of an instrument is in its sound to the listener is like saying the only value of a meal is how it looks on Instagram.
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This. I could have learned so much more, so much faster if I hadn’t learned to play on cast off pieces of crap. I’m certain that I also developed and strongly reinforced really bad technique and habits too.
New players don’t need anything fancy, but they should learn on something that’s at least just barely good enough. My oldest is learning on a Fender Jaguar half scale that set me back less than $200. I can coax some reasonable tone out of it, but the important part is that he can learn how to play it rather than struggle with fretting a single note or keeping it in tune.
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Bassist here, and you more or less took the words out of my mouth. The Fodera has some points where it really shines, but the differences between that and the Fender are going to be largely indistinguishable for regular listeners. It also fails to address a fairly important difference between the various price points of string instruments in particular, which is that a lot of times the difference is less in how nice they can be made to sound, and more in how nice they are to play. In terms of actual sound production, there are some meaningful differences between a 100 and 700 dollar guitar, but the real difference is in how much easier the 700 dollar instrument is to play. The 700 guitar is built out of better materials with tighter tolerances which makes it easier to play which results in the same person playing the same music sounding better on the better instrument, even if both instruments were technically capable of producing the exact same sounds.
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I’ve linked this video before. Chappers and The Captain run though many comparison demos pitting brands and models head to head. They did this excellent piece regarding diminishing returns last year.
TLDR version…while you get to a point where you are not getting enough “extra” in the product to justify the additional cost, the mid range guitar is most definitely better than the cheapest version; and while the most expensive is better, it simply may not be worth the extra cost. For a professional player, it is, because in some cases it may be a drop in the bucket investment to pay said price.
For every person saying “I can’t hear a difference” You won’t be able to hear a difference over a youtube video. The difference in audio would be more clear in person. low end guitars have notoriously noisy pickups with a lot of feedback you won’t hear through a video. The bigger difference is in the construction and feel of the guitar itself. They play different…very different. Far more hands-on-care is put into higher end guitars from the fret board and keys and bridge; to much better wood used for the body and neck which also effects the tone and sound extensively.
I have a top end epiphone les paul standard. A similar gibson model plays better, but I perosnally couldn;t justify spending nearly three times the amount. Additionally, epiphone uses better pickups on their LP standard than Gibson does…IMO.
Chappers and the Captain also did an excellent piece regarding Expensive guitar & cheap amp VS Cheap guitar & expensive amp. Both combos can work, depending on your use for said equipment. Short of it is that for most people buy a better guitar, it will last longer.
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ITT:
- Bad science! Invalidates my purchase decisions!
- Great science! Validates my purchase decisions!
- Too produced!
- Not produced enough!
- Let me, an eminently savvy shopper, tell you about my rig and how little/much it cost.
Sigh. The instrument is the conduit by which the player expresses themselves, and is as inconsequential to the audience as which brand of word processor (or typewriter, or pen, or…) a novelist uses. If a player finds a $100 bass sufficiently inspiring, playable, and reliable, that’s the only thing that matters. If another player can’t find a similar relationship without spending a lot more cash, that’s equally valid. Neither has any appreciable impact on what the audience experiences, save to the degree that the instrument facilitates/impedes the artist’s expression.
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Yeah I am not a music guy, but I imagine its like anything else. You will see a solid difference in the cheapest vs middle of the road, if not in output then in construction and longevity. After that the performance differences will be less and less for the dollar amount, same with constructions, though custom looks/style/esthetics/materials will be a factor in the higher end stuff. It’s nice to have nice things and if you can afford something super nice and are really into it, more power to you. But if you just want something you can afford and do what ever it is you do, the middle of the road option will “work”.
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I am not much of a solid body guitar player. So I have some questions for the experts here.
It seems that the biggest difference in the two, as far as sound goes, would be the pickups. Do the high end makers build their own pickups, or are they just a higher class of component that is commercially available? If that class of electronics are available, then I would assume there are mid class instruments with high end components but lower quality body finish or materials. Maybe that is what they should be comparing.
Of course, the best piece of wood in the world is not going to add $1000 to the cost of building a guitar. So much of that has to be demand or reputation. Unless I am wrong about acoustic properties of solid body instruments.
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Its just a guess on my part…but the people that go buy a $10k+ tribute model probably have 10 of them…that they never play.
Most amateur musicians buy those mid range models from $500-$1500. Then the semi-pros nab that $2500-$5000 range. The real pros never buy off the shelf as they partner to make signature models with manufacturers.
Plus…the other disingenuous thing about these kinds of videos (Chappers and The Captain included)…these guys are really really good guitarists. Give Steve Vai or Joe Satriani some shit-kicker Squier or Ibanez low end model and its going to sound amazing compared to me playing their signature custom guitar. A great musician can put the shine on a turd so to speak.
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The costs is actually more around the wood and the construction…components do play a part. But a high end Gibson or Fender American Strat is made entirely by hand and from single pieces of wood. Whereas the comparable Squier or Epiphone or Fender Mexican Strat is is multiple pieces laminated together and made on an assembly line. It does make a difference.
yes, many components are made with similar parts and bits…though there can be a big difference in the total quality of the components when constructed.
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ITT: No Treble
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instrument/Sound == Meal/Taste
Instrument/Cost == Meal/Instagram
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After seeing Victor Wooten play live a couple of times, I never thought I would see another bass player to compare to him, but I’ve also seen Garrett Sayers and Tal Wilkenfeld since then, and they are in the same league, at least to my untrained ears.
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“I watched the video five times and still can’t hear that much of a difference” somebody needs new ears.
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I had an awesome bass that I probably spent no more than $150 for. A Fender Jazz modified with Hi A pick ups and a Badass bridge. I’m pretty sure I got it from The Uranium Savages (“the band too dumb too die”). Aah. Austin in the 70’s!!!
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From the expression on his face, it looks like he’s having the most fun playing the $10,000 bass
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She’s amazing. She hasn’t been around nearly as long as Victor Wooten, but she’s really coming into her own. She became Jeff Beck’s touring bassist in her mid-teens IIRC.
I’m also a Marcus Miller fan from way back.
If you want pure technical wizardry, look no further than Bill Dickens. When I listen to him, my first thought is “…how…?” and my second thought is “…why…?”
I also thought I’d give a plug to these guys, whom I’ve been listening to a lot lately:
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I watched the video five times and still can’t hear that much of a difference.
If your stereo renders bass notes as ill defined farts, you won’t hear the additional richness and complexity offered by the Fodera. I suppose that if you can play or hear them live, you’ll get the best experience of all.
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It’s a bass guitar. A good portion of what’s interesting about it is in the lower octaves. And you can’t hear that unless you’ve got good headphones, or really massive speakers.
Basic physics dictates the size of lower pitched instruments.
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This is true.[quote=“LearnedCoward, post:12, topic:102995”]
You say that, but under these conditions, I couldn’t notice the differences as well as I might have been able to otherwise.
[/quote]
This is important, because there’s no reason you should.
There is obviously going to be a difference between a cheap bass and a really expensive one, but there’s also going to be a difference in sound between two different expensive instruments as well. Add to that that we never really hear how instruments sound on their own, and even when soloed, we usually hear them after they’ve been compressed and EQ’d so they sound nice in anything from crappy laptop speakers to high end stereo systems.
There is no way to objectively know if one bass sounds better than another because that is always going to be a subjective call. Add to that that all these instruments are different styles and its really hard to hear which one is best since they’re not even intended to sound the same.
The lido sounds a bit lacking in the low thump department but there’s very little reason for it to sound like that, it sounds like its EQ’d to sound thinner, but otherwise a decent sound that works fine.
The Fender has a nasty (The good kind of nasty) bump in the midrange which is very funky and a lot better suited for the music in the video.
The Fodera has a scooped mid sound (again, might be the EQ in the recording, not necessarily the bass itself) which makes things sound more “expensive” but isn’t necessarily something you want for a funk track, maybe some jazz or a pop ballad.
The biggest difference you should expect from a high priced instrument comes down to reliability, and for that you need, better hardware, more stable wood and better finish for easier playability. The Fodera should meet all these requirements but it could probably meet these requirements at 3,000 dollars. 10,000 dollar instruments only happen because some people just have too much money.
These guys do a better job of going through the differences in a cheap vs expensive instrument.
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Austin in the 80s was pretty great too.
Back then I had a Yamaha P Bass clone, now I have a Fender Jazz.
