But God has excused me! Phew. Let’s move on.
Are these 19 kids adopted, or all from the same tired, tired Christian womb?
Didn’t know the church was still handing out letters of indulgence, I thought they stopped doing that some hundred years ago. Obviously I was wrong. “His family is supporting him” I would support my son by filing a self-denunciation with him and really take responsibility. Statements won’t change a thing. Holy crap.
Yeah, committing violent acts (and getting caught) would probably cause some difficulty in YOUR life. That’s the best reason of all to stop committing violent acts…how it affects you.
And can I just add: Anna doesn’t look so thrilled about her baby being a girl. No wonder, since she’s keenly aware of what life is like for girls in that environment.
“Forgive me for being a rapist and molester but don’t forget to punish those filthy consensual homosexual sinners.”
He was fifteen; I wonder if fifteen is old enough for psychological culpability. Repugnant retrofuck attitudes notwithstanding, I’m reticent to condemn someone for acts committed when they were a minor, even as old as fifteen. Lena Dunham caught serious flak for talking about her own sexual experiences as a child and while she was much younger at the time, experts weighed in saying that it shouldn’t be treated the same as an adult sexually molesting a child. I’m still against treating fifteen year olds as adults categorically. Was it handled the best way by his family? Maybe not, but I can’t be consistent in saying that I support different treatment for teenagers when it comes to criminal culpability and throw Duggar in a different category because he believes stupid shit.
I think there is a big middle ground between nothing and locking him up as an adult child rapist for decades.
I’ve followed the febate circling Lena Dunham. To be honest, the comparison of those two seems far-fetched. And the categories of adulthood and adolescence cannot alleviate anyone from moral responsibility. So he should be punished accordingly to the age he was, when he committed the crimes (they’re still crimes, he admited to it).
Perhaps, but was he supposed to lock himself up? At fifteen, you pretty much do what the adults in the room tell you to do in this circumstance. He’s not going to turn into Sydney Carton and march himself to the guillotine.
Punished how? Retributively, or rehabilitatively? I know where I stand on retributive punishment.
A disgusting filthy swine. He would not fare well in the prison system…
I’m not that familiar with the American legal system, being German, so don’t get me wrong. I’m neither a lawyer, nor a judge, but I can tell right from wrong and I’ve been working with children and adolescents for 8 years now, so I’ve met some people his age. When I was fifteen I was pretty aware of what I was doing, so were a lot of my friend. So I’d disagree with your statement “At fifteen you pretty much do what the adults in the room tell you to do in this circumstance”. The first step would have been to admitting to back THEN and I’m unwilling to give the sole responsibilty for that to his parents. Still they also should face some consequences if they covered the whole thing up. He has to live with the shame. And he should be ashamed. That is also taking responsibility. I also understand that growing up in an environment that forces children to suppress their sexuality is not really a nurturing place to come from. But neither is growing up in poverty, just as an example.
But they’re admitting to FIVE “underage girls”: that’s not just a teenager having consensual sexual exploration with a girlfriend of the same age, it’s an example of predatory behavior.
Social scientists and psychologists generally agree that people at that age are still forming cognitive processes that are vital to understanding the world around them. In particular, their ability to empathize is lacking Your personal (misremembered) experience as a fifteen-year old is not a good barometer for what we know about the human brain. Adult pressure in a scary situation will compel your actions at fifteen. If you’ve ever been in a car wreck at that age, you’ll understand that.
I’m not even suggesting that he was engaged in healthy behavior. I will point out that at fifteen, he was also “underage” by most legal standards, so I actually don’t have a good bearing on what is meant by that. I’m pointing out, as linked above, that we cannot judge fifteen year olds by the same barometer that we judge adults. I don’t care if it’s emotionally satisfying to do so.
I stated clearly that he should be punished or to use your word judged according to his age. So we’re clear on that. I’m not sure how you suppose to know anything about my memories and even suggesting I “misremembered” my past. That’s really condescending.
And please don’t talk to me about “general agreements” or a general “lack of empathy” while talking about a particular case - a fifteen year old molesting several (!) girls - this won’t add to the argument.
And I’m not particularly interested in general views of any scientists whatsoever. Please be more specific.
I am not sure if this is a misunderstanding or a straw man, but who said that he should be judged as an adult? And anyway punishment is just one possible aspect of a reaction to this. There is also the issue of protecting the victims and getting someone other than the parents to have an eye that, because it seems that those didn’t mind throwing five children under the bus.
I know nothing about the actual backstory for this other than this post on bb (and associated article from People, which I did read) but isn’t any girl under 18 technically under-age? And if he was 15 at the time, he was also under-age? And so technically according to the law, any sexual activity between him and peers would have technically been molestation? Did he ever acknowledge that it was non-consensual – has anyone even made that argument? Given his insane Xian background, maybe the “horrible acts” he committed were just normal teenage sexual exploration between consenting under-age people? I dunno, maybe it’s way more f’d than that, but who knows what Xtian whack jobs think.
Some of them were his sisters who were at most about 12 at the time. That raises all kinds of ugly power imbalance issues.
