It kinda lingers?
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I figured someone would have addressed this directly already, but boy-howdy will your jaw drop if you move to or near a major city (or - yes - any place with a university). Millenial girls are into antiques and NPR in a huge way. The Navy and whatever Republican hell-hole you’re apparently from are probably not the right places to find like-minded people - though I am 100% sure there are a few. I suppose it does depend on your definition of “nice” in this context, of course, and I do understand that issue.
I do wonder if the guys you don’t have any trouble talking to actually share these interests - you mentioned they can talk about their interests at length, and the examples you gave are stereotypical military dude interests like cars, not film geekery, antiques, and NPR.
On the subject of film geekery specifically, this is an interesting point - something that has always been a major factor in relationships for me, and always very different. In general, few women get deep into film in this particular way:
I mean, most major film geeks - including those that studied it at university like I did (though it wasn’t my major) don’t regularly think about this stuff, although I understand that your point is mainly that people be aware of what they are. In my experience (to coin a phrase), women film geeks do actually fully understand this stuff, and many women who aren’t even film geeks already understand it from middle/high school English class - this is (mostly) basic stuff from literature - though they may not directly see the connection to film at first (that goes for men too obviously) even though high school English usually includes a few movies (or movie versions of books) these days.
However, you correctly point out that many people - again, particularly in your situation, but people everywhere too - don’t know, don’t care, just want to watch something entertaining to take a break from reality once or twice a month.
I also want to emphasize that I know there are tons of women film geeks who know and understand way more than I do (or you do). As others have pointed out, they are much more likely to guard or hide their interests, but they are there. Women as a whole love film as much as men do - full stop. Depending on where you are, it can be hard to find anyone else really into it - hence why most of the discussion is now online… in male-dominated spaces (where women learn quickly to hide that they’re women).
Anyway, here is where my particular advice comes in - and this is learned from experience, hoping the people I’ve dated over the years will like the film stuff I like, in the way I like it.
Most importantly: chill out about it, and let it come naturally. Some girl you otherwise like hasn’t seen Casablanca or a single Hitchcock film?
- First, don’t be that guy that sends lists of obscure (to her, anyway) movies she should watch. She’s not going to.
- Give a single suggestion, based on her personality and other interests. Here’s a secret - Casablanca always works if you can’t figure out something more personalized. These days most people in their 20s, even those into film (and even those into older film), haven’t seen it.
- Give her a chance to watch it - a few weeks even, depending on circumstances and how often you talk (i.e. how into you she is).
- Or, if you’re at a point where it’s plausible she’ll agree, suggest you watch it together.
- Discuss - casually - what she liked and didn’t like about it, before talking about anything you want to talk about.
- Particularly if she didn’t like it (or is ambivalent), pay close attention to what she says! The cause is not lost (and it’s not the end of the world if she never gets that into it - try again with something more personal to her, because by now you know her better anyway).
- Introduce the geekier stuff you like slowly when you talk about why you like these movies. Being really enthusiastic about something is attractive to most people (the kind of person it seems you’re interested in, anyway), but you have to start very broadly, or you actually become very boring instead of exciting.
Here’s what I mean - talk about how Casablanca epitomizes the golden age of Hollywood and how despite a difficult production, every little thing came together just so perfectly - real movie magic. It is both cynical and very hopeful, especially given the context of 1943, and discusses really rather deep issues related to the war that are relevant even today - like corruption, taking sides, Nazis, and refugees. All while being just so damned entertaining.
I’m talking about it like I would a book. I’m not talking about the technical brilliance at first (or even the visual-art brilliance, though that’s a good topic to discuss with people who aren’t already that into film but are into, say, NPR and antiques) - just like you don’t immediately start talking about sentence structure and whatever, brilliant as it may be, when discussing a novel. You’ll get into that eventually, ideally over the course of introducing many of your favorite classics to your new girlfriend over weeks and months (and years), while also looking for things you haven’t seen that you might not normally be into but that she might (and which might surprise you).
Try to remember why you like film so much. It’s an art form that moves you in a unique way that no other medium can. Approach it from the art angle, not the craft angle. Also keep in mind that film can also be relatively mindless entertainment, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that - but you can steer the conversation towards recognizing where entertainment and art meet and you get that magic (Hitchcock is a great way to illustrate that, of course).
If she never gets that into it despite her trying, you have to decide if that’s OK with you or not, I guess - but an interest like this, even if it is your sole reason for existence, is not a reason to throw away an otherwise-good relationship - that’s hard-earned advice many people learn the hard way. Truth is that it’s probably better for most people to be with someone who doesn’t share all of your interests, and this leads to my final, key point.
If you want someone to be as into your interests as you are, you have to be willing to try to get into their big interests too, no matter what it is. It’s nice if there is actually one really deep interest you both share and can get excited about together, but it’s not essential. Antiques and NPR are easy places to cross in your venn diagram of interests, and that’s enough to build a relationship off of. Over time the halves will converge, but never fully, and it would be boring and uninteresting otherwise.
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@enso
Get off your high horse. Your advice so far has been both “be yourself” and “work on yourself”. Those nuggets of wisdom aren’t good enough to let you talk all this shit. I’m not sexist if the women I meet in the Navy just so happen to not be open about their interests with me. That’s just how it is. If you want to win white-knight brownie points take it to 4chan.
Thanks man, solid tips.
You know what, forget it. You’re not going to change or examine yourself. Have a nice life.
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Hell, I work in that industry, and I’m pretty foggy on three-act structure.
I’m telling you, give it a shot. Especially with your work situation, you don’t get all that many opportunities to meet new people at work, and you’ve already (wisely, IMHO) expressed misgivings about dating co-workers anyway.
Consider my situation circa 2004. I was working in TV post production at the time as an associate producer on Will & Grace. Now, you’d think a 34-year-old guy with a decent job on a hit TV show who’s 6’2" and 180 lbs and somewhat better-looking than Ernest Borgnine would have relatively little trouble getting dates. But that wasn’t the case. My work hours were pretty long (60 hrs/wk) and most of my co-workers were either gay, married, or otherwise unavailable. And since I don’t drink, I had no use for the bar scene. In the past I’d met all previous girlfriends either through school or work; not once had I ever gone out on a date with someone I didn’t already know.
So I tried online dating, and it was great. I got to meet great people with shared interests whom I never would otherwise have met. Not every date was wonderful or memorable, but none were bad. And I met my wife of 10 years online. I was a TV producer in Burbank; she was a schoolteacher in Silver Lake; our paths would never have crossed if we didn’t try online dating.
Give it a shot.
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Yeah I wrote a lot but did fail to mention… online dating is clearly the way to go. I mean one could suggest going to antique shows and local NPR station member events, but to find those then you’re already in a big city where you will find endless antique and NPR lovers in their 20s on OK Cupid. Find someone on there and go to an antique show or NPR member event with them.
When I lived in New York - Buffalo, not a great place to meet people - I met someone online and ended up going to the huge antiques show in Brimfield, Massachussets with them. We listened to NPR in the car the whole time.
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A lot of this sounds like the sort of thing I used to say when I had serious mental health problems. Have you considered that depression is making you think like this, not vice versa?
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This is a good way to start. But the key is to read diverse books – branch out from your normal genres and authors a bit. For example, if you mostly read books by white men, read some books written by women (or just non-white-men, really). You can ease yourself out of your comfort zone, but you have to get out of your comfort zone if you want to change yourself. There’s no finish line for any of this (self-improvement, happiness, interpersonal relations, etc.) but you have cross the start.
As a late-30’s person, I wholeheartedly agree. Even within my 20s and 30s I’ve changed quite a bit. 26-year-old me was in a very different place than 22-year-old me. And 30s me has been much more comfortable in my own skin than I have ever been. Not to say that I can’t continue to improve myself, of course.
I’m a single person who would like to one day not be single. But I learned/accepted that this is not a thing I can force. I also came to realize that I am a fulfilled person on my own. And that my non-romantic relationships are just as vital to my well-being and enjoyment of life. While I do want a romantic partner to share my life with, I’ve realized that I don’t NEED one. Because if I’m not happy being me, I’m not going to be happy at all.
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Really they are more like lobsters.
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This is honestly one of the best things about being single in your thirties. Last night I went out with a beautiful, smart woman. Nothing is gonna come from it besides friendship, but being comfortable that you can’t force those things is beyond liberating. And it means that even with all my anxiety, hangups, self doubt, and pessimism, odds are I will eventually find someone.
And that gives me something that is even more valuable than a romantic relationship–hope and optimism.
(It also doesn’t hurt that we are probably gonna hit Russian River or Napa here soon 
)
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it also means you can be a lot better attuned to “this person is paying attention” and “I enjoy the way this person is paying attention” and “I do not enjoy the way this person is paying attention”.
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If one could glean only one lesson from this thread, this is it. This ‘you complete me’ bullshit needs to writhe and wither in the shadows of the truth: you complete you.
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That part is great. And one of the reasons why even if there isn’t romance with this individual, we hit it off so well–we mutually enjoy how we pay attention to each other. Apparently, and this may come as a shock, a lot of people are jerks to others.
I know, I know, stop the presses.
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So, this is a thing.
I understand that I’m speaking in broad generalities here, yada yada, but there’s kind of a catch-22 here-
- Sex and romance are one of the primary ways men find validation and acceptance on a personal level.
- Being happy with yourself is extremely difficult when you never feel any kind of acceptance or validation from others.
- Until you’re comfortable with yourself, people will be unlikely to date you.
The usual advice is “you have to love yourself first”, which is good advice, but it’s usually given by people who already feel pretty good about themselves. It sounds a little tone deaf to someone who constantly feels that the world is telling them they’re unlovable, unfuckable losers.
That sort of situation creates feedback loops. Feel bad, reach out, get rejected, feel worse. That’s not something that somebody just gets over- It’s more like dealing with depression or abuse, except that everyone you ask for help, doesn’t.
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I liken this to riding a bike. If your expectations are that you are gonna ride the tour de France, most people would agree it will take a bunch of work and practice. Similar to climbing your first (insane!!) hill, when it comes to dating it is very analogous.
If I can’t complete a Century, does that make me a failure? Of course not. Similar to romance.
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At least within limits(you don’ have to ‘love’, ‘like’, ‘accept’, etc. yourself; but there’s a reason why people whose job it is to listen to you talk about nothing except your self dissatisfaction often run north of $100/hr; so you should at least shoot for ‘intense self loathing, is willing and able to discuss more interesting things’) I’ve never found this all that convincing, either on the basis of my own experiences or those I’ve observed in friends and peers.
I know that my longest, deepest, and most emotionally involved relationship was during a period where my ‘struggle’(it was more of a swift takeover followed by ongoing occupation) with major depression was at one of its even lower than usual points.
Given that many behaviors of depressed people are really annoying, this did lead to friction at times; and “She certainly loved me far more than I loved me; I have absolutely no idea why.” is a moral of the story that has not exactly proven useful for future attempts; but it was still very much the case.
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My own personal (though not prescriptive) feeling on this whole matter is that the displacement of ‘you complete me’ with ‘you complete you’ is just a scaffold to embracing an even more liberating thought: to hell with being ‘complete’.
The notion ‘Let me never be complete’ is a Zen seed that was planted into my brain by Fight Club and I’ve since encountered this same sentiment in my readings of Taoist and Zen thought. While it still hasn’t germinated (intellectual understanding ≠ actual understanding), I look forward to the day it does.
As I see it, it’s not so much about accepting yourself first as it is about abandoning the notion of ‘completeness’ such that you’re able to accept people as they are, including yourself.
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This is not unique to men.
That advice only sounds tone deaf until to really understand and accept that you will never be happy if your happiness is dependant on validation from others. There are not enough ways a person can stand on their head to make you feel good, or vice-versa. That’s the crux of the whole thing. If you understand how to make yourself happy, you won’t burden a relationship with neediness and dissatisfaction, which almost always ends up focused on the other person. That shit is poison and people can sense it.
What could anyone really say or offer in the way of help to someone who wants to be loved, but believes they are unlovable, who wants to be happy, but needs you make them happy? That contradiction in thought makes it impossible for anyone outside of ourselves to fix.
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