Where do I do that? I am discussing one paper, not the one reporting on the studies which verify the primary effectiveness of the vaccine against C19, and I’m doing it on the sound basis that the people behind the study now have a huge financial interest in the product’s success. Once Oxford married the corporation, they lost their ability to provide independent evaluation of their product. The study should have been done by researchers elsewhere.
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Am I mistaken, or have all the major studies to date been done by the companies in question?
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The main initial studies of the effectiveness of the vaccines were (AFAIK) done by the pharmaceutical companies, who then submitted reports to the various international accrediting bodies, who in turn decided to tentatively accept the results and authorize the use as an emergency measure. In the US at least, the FDA was involved in this process at various points, for example with a Data Safety Monitoring Board appointed by them evaluating the trials, and later another FDA body evaluating the company’s application for Emergency Use Authorization, and then making a recommendation to authorize or not based on that application and everything else the FDA experts involved know.
Since then, we have independent confirmation of the effectiveness of some of the vaccines, eg through government studies in Israel. I think we can be fairly confident at this stage of the effectiveness of the vaccines. (I never said otherwise, and take any implication that I am “actively” supporting an anti-vaxx agenda personally.)
However, I think one of the biggest problems with the corporatization of universities is the loss of their standing as independent evaluators of claims from industry, and based on decades of examples of corporate-sponsored research in the industry (most recently in the opioid sector) I think that studies like this one would “have more credibility” if they were done by someone without a financial stake, for example by Oxford in a parallel timeline where they didn’t partner with AstraZeneca. That’s literally what I said upthread.
The fact that most studies of Drug X are carried out, or at least financed, by the people who manufacture Drug X, is to my mind a serious problem with supervision of the industry. As we move out of the emergency phase on the Covid vaccines we ought to be a little more cognizant of this kind of potential conflict of interest.
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Together with the Trumps only taking the vaccination in secret, this kind of makes you wonder.
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A Russian agent taking actions that further Russian aims? What’s to wonder about? Makes absolutely perfect sense.
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Thank Bill Gates for that BS…
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If I can find any positives in this pandemic, it has been the exposure of societal problems that have been ignored for far too long. For some issues, the disruptions to daily life made them more difficult cover up. Others got worse because of lockdowns and distancing. Hopefully, the work to correct issues and solve those problems won’t get pushed aside again in the rush to reopen and “get back to normal.” We need a new normal with better balance and useful support than what we had in the past, because pandemics aren’t going away anytime soon:
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Stories about lockdown in remote locations make me appreciate living in a more accessible area. Not sure what projections exist for border closures, based on new cases, variants, and vaccine distribution targets:
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Sorry, no. Just no.
They didn’t marry, and you are not talking about one paper, as my [ellipsis] might help to bring attention to.
Please, don’t exaggerate the influence of the producers on the scientific process, which includes peer review which is supposed to check the scientific merits and methods of a paper.
I think this is far to important to discuss this in such a manner. If you have doubts about the quality based on the actual content, ok. Otherwise, I would beg you to refrain from undermining the credibility of the respective people’s research.
We already have enough people sceptical about vaccination, I hope we agree on that.
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God forbid we should consider accommodation of all students in light of a plague that has taken the lives of over 500,000 Americans.
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Exactly what they did, and exactly what I am doing. No, you are right, I think any papers coming out of Oxford lauding their products are tainted by their pretty enormous financial interest. However, that’s the extent of my assertion, and I stand by it, please stop implying I said anything else.
Please, don’t exaggerate the influence of the producers on the scientific process, which includes peer review which is supposed to check the scientific merits and methods of a paper.
I’ve been in this business for several decades, and am editor in chief of an academic journal; I’m well aware of the merits and pitfalls of peer review, thank you very much.
The problems with researchers having a fiduciary interest in the thing they are studying is not something specific to this virus, it is an issue surrounding most industry, and this isn’t the first time it has been discussed on BB with respect to the pharmaceutical industry. AstraZenica doesn’t get a bye on this because of the pandemic. Or are you saying we should never question the influence of financial interest on research results?
I deplore the corporatization of the university because it has undermined the integrity of the institution. Academic research is my profession, so this is personal for me, That isn’t me doing the undermining; in this case it is Oxford.
I think this is far to important to discuss this in such a manner.
And discussing it responsibly does not mean “please shut up about it”
We already have enough people sceptical about vaccination
Please stop suggesting that I’m contributing to this skepticism, it is extremely uncivil of you, and ignores what I’ve actually said above, where I’ve pointed out how independent verification has confirmed the effectiveness of the vaccine(s) for the disease. Even if I hadn’t, it isn’t like this discussion here in this thread is going to strengthen the anti-vaxx movement.
I appreciate that in your country there is currently a possibly-deleterious debate about this particular vaccine that we aren’t having in the US. It seems very strange to me. However, we shouldn’t stop raising questions about the effect of corporate interests on research just because of this isolated political situation.
ETA: Oh, by the way, that paper we are discussing? It hasn’t been peer reviewed yet. Upthread (or maybe in the previous thread) you yourself were warning rather strenuously against publicizing such things.
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I’d never heard of that town, but it reminded me of stories about the Aroostook Valley Country Club in northern Maine. There aren’t any recent updates, since we’re in our annual deep freeze, but the entry to the club is in Maine while the grounds lie in Canada. So Canadians can’t use it, because they can’t come over to get to the entry, and I think USAians can’t use it because they’d technically be entering Canada.
Not comparable to being unable to access medical facilities, but just a weird side effect of wonky borders during the pandemic.
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It’s scary to see this described like a race, where the children of have-nots are struggling to keep pace with kids whose parents paid for tutors or distanced, in-person private school classes. Next we’ll be seeing charts showing percentages of kids by grade level who didn’t perform well in the usual standardized tests in 2020/2021.
Maybe those who are keeping score should consider this pandemic like an unplanned “gap year.” Any school-aged child who went through this should be allowed to repeat without negative consequences, or to catch up over the course of the following year. That way it could be gradual, instead of a stress-filled, summer-long cram session.
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So much this. It has affected different students in such different ways. I saw my daughter struggle last spring with the ad hoc distance learning that they slapped together, but once the system had a chance to put together more thoughtful programs, she’s thriving.
So a lot of kids will want an asterisk next to their 2020 and 2021 info.
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I see both sides of this. Quite a number of kids are thriving with education minus bullying and fear, or just not having to deal with awkward social interactions. From the description, you can probably imagine the type of kids these include. Others are dying for social contact, depressed and alone and having given up on learning entirely. Perhaps this event will spell an end to “one size fits all, if it doesn’t work for you, tough” education systems. Or, maybe we have lost a huge chunk of an entire generation. I know which option I prefer.
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Michigan is opening vaccination to over-50 with comorbitities:
That’s me. I called to get on the waitlist, and they scheduled me to get the first shot Thursday. I was not expecting to tear up. Thanks, Gov. Whitmer!
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