I’m sure if I started paraphrasing your arguments for you, you might object to that. Am I wrong for asking you not to put words in my mouth?
Please?
Sounds just like critics of BLM/Black activists who are more concerned about our “tone” than they are about the bigotry, abuse and disparity that caused the movement in the first place.
12 Likes
Then answer yourself if you can. In our world where people are excluded, kept from normal activities, and even beaten and killed for the crime of wanting to be themselves instead of suffering through dysphoria forever, what is it about the activists who want to stop this that you think it is not bigoted to be uncomfortable about? And when people like Rowling are still on massive campaigns to keep those people marginalized and hurting, exactly what extremism are you worried about happening?
13 Likes
Then what you are wanting people to do here? She hurt actual real human beings. Why does she get more compassion than the people she hurt? You’re implying that it’s “extreme” to say it plain about what people have done. She’s thrown her lot in with some real extremist here, people who would rather see trans kids kill themselves than get the support and love that they need. They want to hurt children, and she’s all for it.
14 Likes
11 Likes
Sorry, the internet doesn’t work that way. It is important to realize that 1) people will interpret what you say differently and, 2) because that will happen, your remedy is to be as clear as possible when you post, and also clarify with follow-up comments when needed.
Expecting everyone to see the world as you do (and therefore interpret your words as you intended) is a recipe for disappointment all around, especially in a forum as diverse as the BBS.
15 Likes
If I were 20 years younger, I’d totally be out as nonbinary. And dealing with all those calls to “get off the fence” and “choose a side”. My [brother’s offspring] came out recently as MTF trans, and from what I know of her/our family, there’s not a lot of support, emotional or otherwise.
In my view, it’s gender constructs that are broken and need to change, not the people who are harmed by these malfunctioning ideas. Digging in deeper to claim those privileges and burdens -in my view- does nothing to loosen up those gender roles.
I know what it’s like to be informed that one is ‘doing gender incorrectly’. The general consensus among caregivers seemed to be in my day, “convince the kid they’re doing gender wrong, and they’ll eventually stumble into the correct gender identity on their own”.
Contratemps herself says, "sure, trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are… (smirking) valid ?
Hooray for being called “valid”, I guess. Which is why I like her alternative.
But in the same way I don’t like being pressured to join one sexual “team” or anothet, I don’t like being told “you’re with us or you against us”.
Two sides, two sexes, two genders. Everything else is off-topic. It’s not that I misunderstand your contempt for my position, it’s that I disagree with the polarity idea in the first place. If there’s not room for more than two ideas in the struggle for universal human rights, how can there be room for more than two genders?
The male “failure” I’ve been accused of most in my life, is rejecting the connection between violence and masculinity. I don’t like swords as much as I like pens. The sword may cut, but it’s the pen that ultimately decides which way the sword gets pointed. And violence doesn’t just happen with no warning, there is always violent language before there’s violent action.
It’s weird to think maybe I’m defending J K Rowling if I critique her critics… Contrapoints is saying stuff way more interesting than what Rowling is saying. The only reason anyone seems to care what Rowling says, is that she also wrote some children’s stories that sold well.
Rowling is wrong, but her wrongness (in my opinion) is not righted by some kind of orwellian three minute hate session. And if you disagree with that, I guess that gives you permission to punch every nazi you want. You just didn’t get that permission from me.
This is actually a helpful reminder, thanks!
And to (try to) add to what you’ve said, the remedy is not always going to “work”.
You might want to proofread that sentence.
16 Likes
It needs to be stated that JKR’s wrongness bigotry is not negated by ‘just ignoring it’; she has a huge platform and she consistently uses it to demean and dehumanize Trans people.
15 Likes
My youngest is trans, and it is very important in that setting to work hard to not misgender. It is very difficult, I do understand, when you have a long history with the person being addressed in one way, and now they are asking to be addressed in another, but it really is vital to do so. It is a small show of respect and validation at a point in time when she probably needs it very badly.
15 Likes
I think a few graphical reminders may be needed
And this is what a real radical feminist looks like.
23 Likes
I’m totally swiping that one about debate and the erroneous assumption of “equal standing”; sadly, I know it will likely come in handy in the future…
15 Likes
So. Much. This.
She’s a literal billionaire living in a literal castle with literally millions of Twitter followers.
There are maybe a thousand people in the whole world with that much clout.
13 Likes
We don’t need your permission to punch Nazis but we remain concerned why you defend them so often.
20 Likes
I understand how you feel about gender constructs, and that is a valid point. But the fact of the matter is that there are trans people who are being persecuted simply for being who they are, and laws to protect them are often woefully inadequate. And Rowling is fully on the side of the persecutors here. Gender constructs in general are an issue, but they are not the immediate and pertinent issue that we are discussing here. It is okay to feel uncomfortable about how gender constructs play into the issue, and how those same gender constructs fall short. That is not what Rowling is talking about and that is not what is happening in terms of the oppression of trans people.
Nobody is disagreeing with you here. We are not saying there can only be two genders and everyone has to be one or the other. It is being said somewhere by some, but that is not the issue here. We are talking about the fact that a prominent children’s author is supporting the suppression of certain genders based on the circumstances of their birth.
11 Likes
There are a whole range of views in the trans community, from the idea of diverse gender where everyone finds a place where they feel comfortable all the way to gender binary transmedicalists.
The idea that transgender is monolithic is completely wrong. It’s also a view that tends to mostly be held by TERs, as it fits with their belief that transgender is a cult.
14 Likes
Indeed. We are all on the same side here. People who are nonbinary and people who are trans (and one can certainly be both as well, there’s no firm line) are very much fighting the same battles on the same side. It’s okay to identify as a man or a woman, and it’s also okay to identify as neither of the above. That’s what we’re talking about, and that’s what Rowling is against.
10 Likes
What we choose is whether or not to live openly as ourselves to a greater or lesser degree, but even if we choose never to reveal it to a single other soul it doesn’t change that we’re transgender.
Anyway, I think Natalie does a really good job on this video explaining a lot of the stuff around this and am glad to see the link on BoingBoing.
12 Likes
Don’t worry I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Sometimes I expand on what other people say with what I know and have experienced. Unfortunately I have a lot of painful experiences from being transgender, a fair few of them come from having to fake being a boy to avoid being beaten at school. The TERs seem to approve of how I was treated as a child for some fucked up reason.
To explain further:
In the past nonbinary was considered to be part of transgender because they are not cisgender, but now there are people who are nonbinary who reject the trans label. I’m not going to force it on them, but I will disagree with anyone who believes that all nonbinary people are not transgender.
16 Likes
