Well, that sucks.
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This is a documentary that traces the cinematic tropes.
But if you take Rudolph Valentino, who made famous a character known as “The Sheik” in the silent film era, once felt the need to defend the idea that a woman would fall for a “savage” on the basis that “people are not savages because they have dark skins.” This would tend to indicate to me that Arabs weren’t white in the 1920s. Segregation lead to weird moments for people of Arab descent who weren’t certain what bathroom to use, and this confusion indicates a certain level of non-whiteness during that era of American history. So based on the confluence of these things I tend to believe Arabs were never white enough, even though they’re white in the census.
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[quote=“L_Mariachi, post:121, topic:82295”]
he Jazz Singer is a common but bad example of blackface as appropriation[/quote]
But you haven’t actually explained why it’s a bad example of appropriation.
That’s insensitive to people without both legs.
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The jazz singer is just blatant racism, I think. It’s one of the canonical examples of racism in film (of which they were many, of course, so take your pick) and the sort of culmination of years of black face in popular entertainment more generally. It’s taking black cultural forms, simplifying them and making fun of them at the same time. Black face, generally speaking, promoted a distorted view of blackness, intended to validate white’s sense of superiority.
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Except that actual Japanese people are not offended by those at all.
Much like here (where some were offended and others found it a non-issue), the reaction seems to have been mixed, at least regarding the possible non-representative reaction online in Japan:
I think only a small subset of people here think this is a problem and I’d guess it’s the same in Japan? There are plenty of times when issues aren’t considered problems by the majority of people, but a subset disagrees. I happen to fall into the disagree camp on issues of representations of race in film. YMMV.
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Don’t ya just love broad paint brushes?
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Talking about shit on the internet lends itself to broad brush analysis, generally speaking. The nuance that we can bring to a book or article is often lost when we try and hash this out on forums like this. I do think this is one of the better and more thoughtful places to talk about stuff, but even here, it can get pretty broad and simplified when I’d prefer more complexity, nuance, and shades of gray…
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Fair point.
It just blows my mind whenever anyone deigns to speak on behalf of an entire population; as if they all think and act exactly alike.
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Whereas I can’t speak for everyone in my adopted homeland, pretty much no one cares about the idea of a Japanese origin story being localized for elsewhere. It’s considered normal, after ass Japan has been localizing Western things for hundreds of years.
You could have both, in Shirley Q Liquor.
Drag, while often intended as respectful or historically a way for trans persons to embody themselves in public life, may also be a caricature and very close to clowning, both in performance and makeup.
I can see why the acts may bother some feminists and trans women, who believe certain performances may be in less than loving spirit or in the latter case, may give concern that others might find their transition to be a “performance” of gender rather than sincere expression.
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Of course. Contextualized, the character and the historical prevalence of Jewish actors performing blackface is an interesting study without a doubt, but hatred of the chosen people out of vaudeville / blackface fame doesn’t argue away the grotesquery of these performances.
Wow, I had never heard of this performer until you mentioned them. I’ll admit that I’m only moderately more informed about them now, having read their Wikipedia article, but it didn’t exactly inspire me to seek out more from them. RuPaul’s endorsement does make me wonder “Am I missing something here?,” so I’m willing to hold off on condemnation, but I’m having a hard time getting by my initial reaction. (Great example of a drag performer mocking women, though, or at least a very specific stereotype.)
My household has discussed this a lot. There absolutely can be a fine line between mockery and … what, performance? Presentation? I don’t find the Python’s Pepperpot characters offensive, although I can see how some people would find them so, but Milton Berle always kind of pissed me off. The Pepperpots would have been just as funny if they really were little old ladies, but Berle’s Auntie Mildred “humor” would fall flatter than it already does, simply because it depends on “man in a dress” as a key element.
That’s part of the problem with our current concepts of gender. Those are performances of gender, even if the transwomen are sincere about the expression. Performance of gender are is an action mostly taken so others will judge your gender as consistent within the gender norms of a society. (Incidentally, many transwomen are more or less forced into these norms by the dictates of society that will question them at every turn should they stray from them. Many ciswomen get this to a degree, but it takes a bit more than wearing jeans before most cis-women get questions about their identity being real.)
Yeah, sorry, that went places I wasn’t entirely intending. This has been a bit of a focus issue for me lately anyway.
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My point was that neither of us can know how everyone feels about it - some likely were pissed, others could care less. Plus, we are talking about a subset of Japanese culture here. I’d suspect that viewers in Japan who aren’t into anime/manga care less than people who are. Again, same here. The average American movie consumer who isn’t into comics likely doesn’t care about casting issues, while what’s considered miscasting by comics fans will be a hotly debated topic.
I will point out that plenty of Asian Americans (not just Japanese Americans, either) have weighted in on this issue and have pushed for more casting of Asians or Asian Americans in films generally speaking and less whitewashing of films. I believe George Takai circulated a petition about the adaption of Akira specifically.
Whoops! Typo! I’m guessing you meant after all, instead!
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I don’t think that pointing out the racism inherent in blackface is the same as hating the chosen people, though. The tensions inherent in institutional racism really created a hierarchy which is less about just black and white and more about tensions between communities who have historically been considered “less than white” if that makes sense. There have long been complaints about exploitation of black performers and culture by the structure of the culture industries, who ever is at the top of that hierarchy.
I think we agree here?
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I don’t have a problem, but other trans womens opinions range from “the drag community was a safe place for me to transition” to hatred. Drag never appealed to me but I lean towards supporting it.
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A pile of shit by any other name still reeks
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You’re not. RuPaul and Lady Bunny come from a different era, and while they do good things, they also continue to promote this “edgy” shit that’s “ha ha only serious”.
