Samuel L. Jackson said it better.
3 Likes
Totally agree. If I get woken up in the morning, there ain’t no why I’m going to manage to get back to sleep.
3 Likes
Mano said he saw the sign, but clarified that “solicitation and campaigning are not the same thing.”
This is where I lost all sympathy for Mano. Screw that guy.
If I post “No Solicitation,” that’s not a First Amendment issue. It’s a message saying “I don’t want to be interrupted at home by your bullshit, so fuck off, and that’s as polite as I’m going to get.” I don’t care if you’re selling yourself or a product. I don’t want you to explain the difference. I just want you to go away.
2 Likes
If that’s what you want rather than winning an internet argument over word definitions then it behooves you to clearly state what you mean rather than just use an equivocal word like “solicitation” that has multiple meanings as has been demonstrated in this thread.
Re: The Wording of the Sign
How about this:
If you weren’t invited
GO AWAY
If you are on friendly terms with the neighbors, it is presumed they would know to ignore it, as would your friends.
1 Like
IANAL, but I couldn’t find any legal precedent, let alone a SCOTUS ruling, on whether the First Amendment covers ignoring a sign on private property to not knock (or ring) as protected speech. The relevant case law all seems to address municipal ordinances, not private property rights. Which makes sense, as who in their right mind would sue a private citizen over their right to futilely bother them, let alone pursue it all the way to the Supreme Court?
Unfortunately The Free Speech Project article @Skeptic linked to seems to make the leap from said case law to the conclusion that the First Amendment covers ignoring a sign posted by a private citizen on private property, when in fact the case law would not seem to support a conclusion either way.
So what does that mean for John’s “No Soliciting” sign in the Seattle suburbs? In short, it is irrelevant to noncommercial home visits, be they for the purpose of religion, government, or politics.
What the anecdote does show, however, is that John’s harassment of the article’s author Honl-Stuenkel exceeded merely demanding the author leave his property to a blatantly unjustified assumption of authority over his neighbors’ private property, making John the kind of Darren that makes a neighborhood a worse place to live.
While The Free Speech Project seems to have a mission I support, I’d be more inclined to deffer to their legal interpretation if they listed any law degrees on their seemingly exhaustive list of contributors, but the only law school experience they list is two past contributors currently pursuing law degrees. It seems like a project such as this would benefit enormously by having a J.D. (preferably specializing in First Amendment law). Not least of all because I would be fascinated to read a professional opinion on whether or not the case law actually does support ignoring private property signage against knocking (or ringing) as protected speech. My instincts suggest it’s not but, again, IANAL.
This webpage seems to have a more thorough list of case law and clearer analysis, and even there I couldn’t find any cases that weren’t about municipal ordinances:
3 Likes
A wildly disproportionate response from a government prosecutor with a short temper and poor impulse control issuing thinly veiled mob-mentality threats?
Public servants such as Steven Wuthrich should be held to a higher standard and I’m glad to see some finally are for a change. Whether he wrote it or his office wrote it and he just signed off on it, at least he issued a real apology. Now, since Darin Mano has indicated being open to a personal apology - never directly contact someone you need to apologize to without their permission - that should be Wuthrich’s next step, and Wuthrich deserves increased scrutiny in his role as a public servant going forward.
Clearly he was saying his mantra wrong. /s
Also, while Darin Mano shouldn’t have ignored the sign, an enthusiastic effort to connect with constituents is laudable and I absolutely do have sympathy for him. Politicians who care enough to meet their constituents one-on-one is rare enough as it is. And while Wuthrich shouldn’t be bothered at home if he doesn’t want to, assholes like John in my previous comment who try to make this decision for others, including those who pass municipal ordinances against canvassing, can fuck right the fuck off. I and absolutely NO one else deserve to make that decision for me.
3 Likes
Ausgezeichnet, even!
Mr angerist needs to lose his job, tout de suite.
I got so sick of being hassled by god-botherers I made my own sign, and put it above the doorbell. “God/dess is not so trivial s/he can be sold door to door - don’t even ring the bell.” It worked, except for one dumb fuck who rang anyway. I stood by the (closed) front door and irritatedly inquired, “Can you read?” He said he could. I said, “Well?!” and away he went.
Long before I got the idea for the sign, some damn god-botherer woke me at 8AM on a Sunday. I was furious and very hung over - I’d had a quite mad and V late Saturday night with friends. I stumbled downstairs, flung open the doors, and balefully looked the fucker in the eye. My hair was dyed black and very spiky, and I’d done a lousy job of washing off the weird black eye makeup before bed. If you could have seen his face! I angrily but quietly lied that I was a black magician, and would cast a death spell on him if he didn’t immediately leave my property. He hurriedly did so. The god-botherers gave us a miss for more than a year after that encounter.
It’s absurd that folks on here are insisting on 1st Amendment rights re: doorbell ringers!
Milennials won’t even go near the door unless they’re expecting someone, so they’re killing off all the door to door “industries” as well as everything else they’re supposedly destroying. Bless them.
Good maps of Jamaica feature the phrase, “Mi no sen,’ you no come,” in the Maroons’ area of the Cockpit Country. Uninvited visitors are still viewed with suspicion.
4 Likes
IANAL, still less an American lawyer, but I would not be surprised if the 1st Amendment protected both Mano’s right to knock on Wuthrich’s door despite the posted sign and Wuthrich’s right to send an invective-filled email in response.
But they’re both jerks.
3 Likes
IMHO, Wuthrich is a jerk. Mano might be, but he might also just be someone who transgressed a boundary in the hopes of connecting with a constituent which, while not cool, doesn’t quite rise to jerkdom in my personal estimation. YMMV.
5 Likes
It would be nice to get a ruling from the pope(hat) on this.
1 Like
Did someone miss putting an (R) after his name? I don’t know for sure but I have my suspicions.
1 Like
I think the 1st amendment has to do more with the government limiting it. like in my city you need a permit for door to door sales, and I dont think that applies to politics or religion. But if you’re a political candidate, you’d probably do well to NOT knock on doors that say “no soliciting”, you’re probably more likely to piss off a potential voter than recruit one. My own no soliciting sign is more specific “No Soliciting: No sales, products, flyers, politics, or religion”. It does work! The two large, loud dogs help too.
2 Likes
Apologies. I misinterpreted “It really seems like a bad idea to go knocking on one of those doors unless you like to bias voters against your cause.”
Because let’s be honest, no sign is a free pass to be dick. We have no trespassing signs all over my property. Few people care and I don’t feel I have the right to berate them and if I didn’t I would end up in a fist fight every week. Ask them to politely leave or have them removed by the cops or game warden and move on. It’s not worth having a heart attack over. These days though everyone thinks of themselves as so precious, you end with assholes as in this story.
Again my apologies. Wish I could change how the comment itself was redirected. I can delete it if you prefer.
Cheers.
1 Like
Anyone else hoping the neighborhood kids add this guy to their “ding-dong-ditch” rotation?
(Do kids still play that?)
1 Like
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
