I wasn’t being snarky. I was being serious. That context was already there, already discussed, and I’d already said numerous times that it was derailing and off topic and I do not know why you decided to repeat it.
I’m glad you were pleasantly surprised about something and think it’s totally relevant in a topic about an adult woman raping a teenage boy, though.
From what we know, she performed oral sex on a teen boy. That’s not okay.
Saying ‘thanks for the pointless explanation’ isn’t snark? Sure sounds like it to me.
And you don’t get to set the bounds for this discussion, broader discussions of sexuality are completely on-topic here, and judging by most of the other comments in this thread this is not a minority opinion. Are we not capable of holding different ideas in our heads at the same time without them interfering with one another.
I wasn’t pleasntly surprised by something in a topic about and adult woman raping a teenage boy, I was pleasantly surprised by an event that happened in my real life in a time before the internet was thing.
Again, I agree that the oral-sex was not ok.
I’ll agree to stop lecturing you if you agree to stop lecturing me, deal?
You’re the one making a big deal about a throwaway comment in parentheses, it sounds like you care about it more than I do.
These last three posts have definitely been off topic though, so I’m out for the night…
If the 15 year old in question feels that they have been violated, then they do have my every sympathy and hope for justice.
My concern is that he does not seem to be the one claiming that a violation took place. Although after having become a huge news item I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been shamed into regretting it by now. It’s not like she was a teacher, doctor, or relative who introduced an ethical power dynamic into the situation. They seem to be equals, but of different ages. Sure, it seems a bit skeevy to me. But if they are ok with it, it’s not for others to complain.
And, as I asked before, what is a “boy’s bar mitzvah”? I am not Jewish, but my understanding is that it is a rite of adulthood. If the family has a ritual saying “he’s an adult, and responsible for his own decisions now”, then they need to respect that. Otherwise, don’t make a meaningless gesture out of telling the kid he’s an adult and then instantly freaking out over his sex life. It seems to send a conflicting message.
So very much not equals then. Glad we got that covered
Just because a couple thousand year old cultural ceremony says you’re an adult, that doesn’t make you legally an adult. But that’s neither here nor there, since it wasn’t the bar mitzvah boy that got the BJ any way.
But to paraphrase what I said earlier in the thread… There are plenty of 18 year olds who are less sexually mature than many 15 year olds, and if they had consensual sex with a 35 year old (the exact same age difference as this case) it would be completely legal, and while some people might frown on it, nobody (not even @marilove) would call it rape. BUT, in order to protect adolescents who are NOT sexually mature enough to emotionally handle a situation like this, a legal line has to be set in the sand. And in this case, the line seems to have been set at 18. As others have said, you can’t really leave this kind of thing up to any kind of discretion, because doing so leads to arbitrary subjective judgments on whether a teenager is sexually “ready” enough to consent, and then you’ll have defense lawyers attacking victims’ character in court.
alistairmichaelkinne:
Ten years ago people in my town were picketing adult shops. Now there are
billboards advertising them at the same intersection.
Even just this speaks volumes about people’s insecurities - that the
defining characteristic of sexual behaviors is that they are/should-be
“adult”. They aren’t, and they never have been. Apparently, this
realization terrifies people, so we encounter an increase in euphemism. The
kind of sexuality most associated with such shops is masturbation - sure,
some use videos and vibrators with partners, but most don’t. Can people
honestly say that masturbation is unknown to children? Of course not, but
they like to go blue in the face trying.
I don’t think that sexually-related shops are truly indicative of a culture
of open sexuality, they are made possible by trying to make sex separate
from normal life, so that it can be hidden away. People being ashamed about
sex may be statistically normal, but this doesn’t suggest that it is
healthy. The other effect which results from this is that it makes sex
easily commodified, leading to the very depersonalization and
objectification people complain about.
So by this you invalidate 500 or so years of modern family life in Europe
and America, and it’s values, distinct culture and behaviors.
The end of a way of living is terrifying and creates a post-traumatic state
in anyone who holds those values dear.
The cultural terror of the gay parade on people of modesty is a clear
example of this at work, and yet for some it is a day in the city with the
kids.
Who is right? Nobody. Merely another facet of a re-tribalizing society.
In the family-oriented society, modesty is the attitude toward sex and in
the tribal society sex is mundane and a natural part of the life of the
community and is openly displayed.
Both function well, but when the values of a society are in transition the
desire of some to display themselves publicly shocks the old culture.
Jesus Christ, when the fuck did BBS turn into a NAMBLA chatroom? Call me a pedo-Godwinner here, but christ, all the greatest hits are being trotted out here. It’s like the third act confession/justification/philosophical treatise from a perp on a particularly heavy-handed episode of Law and Order SVU up in this thread.
Ok, I will!
So, you don’t think it’s odd that people seem unable to have a calm conversation about ethics without shaming and name-calling? There have been discussions on the BBS about topics as stark as torture and ecological collapse, yet they haven’t resulted in demands that the only acceptable responses were token expressions of outrage. I come right out and say it - if something is a big ethical concern, yet people cannot honestly discuss it, this does not seem “reasonable”. And, in this case “reasonable” does not mean that people should share or agree with my opinions, it means that people can honestly engage questions rather than attempting to shame somebody for asking them. When proper conduct is so “obvious”, one might suppose that people would understand it sufficiently to have a real conversation, without instantly resorting to claims of ignorance or bad faith.
The woman I had sex with when I was 15 did not rape me. No amount of raving is going to convince me that I have been gravely injured or was not capable of offering consent. I was not sheltered. I was not a child. She did not coerce me. I certainly did not need your puritanical infantilizing protection from the big bad world. The idea that you would happily send her to prison and effectively deny her employment for the rest of her life is both disgusting and horrifying.
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