What the fuck is this bullshit?!
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Itās not that hard to write a simple sentence. He is an arrogant asshole who thinks heās brilliant and yet he writes gibberish.
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Thatās absurd, she didnāt have a mind control ray, it is clear some of the participants didnāt even like her. They walked because they walked not because Zoe Quinn did it.
Iāve read about the game Jam, I donāt know anything about this. But I read the same article as you about the game jam and I thought your interpretation of it was very anti-Zoe Quinn. If there are are decent sources that cover this that would provide some background on why some people really donāt like Zoe Quinn, but I thought the point was that gamergate is not about Zoe Quinn?
This coming from someone who doesnāt think people should dismiss gamergate as all the same is ridiculous.
This question was asked and answered in another thread just recently. Iāll give you the same answer: We all know that people lie, even about important things. Reasonable people also consider that they might be wrong about things and consider the damage that might be done if they are. Thatās why we donāt join hate mobs when an ex-boyfriend says that his ex-girlfriend did bad things to him (or repeat, unquestioned, the āfactsā presented by such an ex-boyfriend). On the other hand, the same thinking leads us to not worry so much about whether someone might be faking threats against themselves because a) thatās pretty deranged behaviour; and b) the worst case scenario is that someone get some undeserved attention and sympathy. And weāre ready to find out we were wrong about facts. I wonder when the last time you found out your ideas were wrong because of new information coming to light was.
If you think, āHey, you guys might be wrong,ā is a revolutionary idea, you might want to try to revolutionary idea of āHey, what if Iām wrong.ā
Here is what I donāt understand: What is this about? We know the fuse was lit with Gjoniās rant about Quinn but supposedly itās about more than that. Itās about integrity or ethics or something. What Iāve never understood from the many posters who have come on here to argue about this in every thread on the subject is this: Why do people care so much and what do they hope will happen?
This is a question for everyone who has come here to support GamerGate. If there was a list of demands, what would be on it? At what point could gamers declare victory? When, as @striking says, can we get back to playing games?
Should people know that Zoe Quinn is actually pretty nasty?
Should gaming sites produce reviews that can be held up to some kind of objective, auditable standard?
Should people stop caring what Anita Sarkeesian thinks?
I just donāt know. The only actual agenda, actual outcome Iāve ever seen associated with gamergate, including by people who support it, is an ephemeral, undefinable āethicsā in journalism and horrible misogyny (plus some stuff about the Jews, incredibly). Iām not trying to unfairly define this as a challenge. It can be an emotional goal or a loosely defined one. But there has to be something to make all of this hate worth it, doesnāt there?
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Waitā¦ now Zoe Quinn alone is being blamed for how that show crashed and burned? What, did she somehow mind-control the rest of the developers into getting upset at the questions being asked?
What is it with GamerGaters and the tinfoil-hat-worthy conspiracy theories?
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I never heard any of the blame being aimed anywhere except at Matti Leshem, who richly deserved it.
Also interesting to note (as I read about it again just now) that even back then she was already getting harassment and death threats as a result of Depression Quest.
http://indiestatik.com/2014/03/31/most-expensive-game-jam/
http://indiestatik.com/2013/12/13/female-game-developers/
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Okay, letās start with the article that you accused of being biased. You could be referring to Coryās post (which I would hardly call an āarticleā ā it was two sentences) but youāre probably referring to the interview with Eron. The problem that you have failed to see is that thereās not much room for bias in an interview. Eron spoke for himself, and what he said was as douche-y as it gets. We can disagree as to whether it was in fact douche-y, but the accusation of bias is inappropriate and ā frankly ā makes it pretty clear that youāre the one with the agenda, trying to discredit an article where Eron spoke for himself.
But I do. Iāve seen enough earnest trollies to know exactly what your beliefs are and what your agenda here is. Iāve read enough of what youāve got to say, and Iām rarely surprised.
See, this is where you tell us everything we need to know about you. The ācorruptionā thing is pure bullshit, and deep down inside you know it. The corruption is a red herring. Even if there is corruption (and I seriously doubt that itās even 1/100th of what has been stated) ā so the fuck what? Does the supposed corruption of the gaming press actually warrant the kind of wanton abuse of a bunch of women? No, clearly it does not. And if you are actually against harassment and death threats (which you say you are, but we all know thatās a bald-faced lie) then you would immediately disassociate yourself from a movement that is, in fact, engaging in harassment, death threats, rape threats, and all kinds of other horrible behavior.
Because standing with GG is ā to almost everyone else ā standing on the side of hate. Any corruption you might come up with pales in comparison to that.
And just because various parts of the press are against you doesnāt mean they are corrupt. Thatās the cognitive dissonance talking. The fact that the press is against you can be adequately explained by the fact that you guys are a bunch of misogynistic aggro douchebags with cognitive dissonance problems.
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Christ, am I sick of the misinformation thatās woven into the very fabric of Gamergate. Zoe Quinn did not doxx TFYC. TFYC admitted as much in a statement on their website, and while they did retract some of it even their retraction made it clear she didnāt doxx them. She tweeted her concerns with their statement on trans contestants, which originally required that they be āfully transitioned.ā TFYC changed the wording as a result. All of the developers agreed to walk out of the game jam, and it sounds like the producers were trying to create cheesy reality show drama; she didnāt hold a gun to the other contestantsā heads. Sheās still working on her own game jam, but the last two months have been a bit of a distraction for her, weirdly enough.
Ask yourself why you still believe all these demonstrable lies. Then ask yourself whether Gamergate is about journalistic ethics or using phony scandal to hound women out of the industry.
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Also, heās released his own ātranscriptā, which Buzzfeed say are revised, written responses he provided later.
Which still doesnāt make him look any better, to be honest.
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So what? [positing that this is even true]
So what fucking difference does that mean for the games she writes? How many people did Sid Meir fuck? How many people did Peter Molyneux fuck? Do you know? Do you care? Does it fucking matter who fucks who?
NO IT FUCKING DOES NOT.
No, wait, I take it back. It does. Fucking somebody means you should be threatened with rape and death. IāM COMING FOR YOU PETER MOLYNEUX YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR POPULOUS: THE BEGINNING.
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The āabused.ā Sorry for not making myself clear, but is that sarcasm?
I really hope it wasnāt. Iāve had enough ruined evenings.
Well written. I acknowledge that Iām wrong.
I am against the harassment and death threats. But I havenāt looked as solidly at #GG than I thought.
Iām not a troll. Iām wrong. This guy is a douche and I see now that thereās no bias. I got ahead of myself and made a mistake. Iām sorry for what happened to him but honestly heās done far worse than any rational person would have done in his shoes.
PS: Re: the press against #GG. I only consider games journalism to be corrupt, I totally understand why news outlets consider #GG a bad thing (and the hate needs to stop). There are some interesting things going on here that are definitely odd, to say the least; it just bothers me that people will hate each other over this. Corruption or not, thereās always a non-violent way to do things.
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I didnāt know much about the Quinn / TFYC stuff before. This doesnāt sound particularly good, either.
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YES! This is the most egregious part about Gamergate.
People were talking about corruption in gaming media long before Gamergate and people were talking about how screwed up the relationship between women and gaming for only a somewhat shorter time.
The two were never linked until Eron Gjoni posted his screed. Now they are inextricably linked and people from one side donāt believe the other has any kind of legitimate concern.
Looking at things objectively, Iād say that gamers (as in people who play video games, not just āGamerzā or āGatorzā) as a whole lost and the trolls won.
PS: Re: the press against #GG. I only consider games journalism to be corrupt, I totally understand why news outlets consider #GG a bad thing (and the hate needs to stop). There are some interesting things going on here1 that are definitely odd, to say the least; it just bothers me that people will hate each other over this. Corruption or not, thereās always a non-violent way to do things.
I read the article, and I donāt think itās all that odd. I think the author is trying desperately to spin the facts into some kind of grand conspiracy, but thatās the kind of BS I would expect from that particular outlet. The fact that games journalists talk amongst themselves within a google group setting isnāt particularly noteworthy. Lots of professionals network like that. The fact that one is chiding others to be responsible isnāt especially noteworthy either, as they are as free to speak their minds as we are.
I will definitely agree that the press (here, there, in the mainstream media, you name it) will attempt to spin a story to fit a particular narrative. Iāve been on the inside of enough events being covered by the media to know that fitting the facts into a preconceived narrative ā regardless of the actual truth those facts represent ā is the sad reality of journalism today. This Breitbart guy appears to be making a really pathetic attempt at turning a molehill into a sensational mountain.
Donāt fall for it. Use your own ability to reason. Apply logic. Think about motivation. Most of all, use Occamās razor to weigh alternative (and probably simpler) explanations for a few journalists talking among themselves. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
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Good on you for saying so, young sir. Takes character.
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Not All Gerstmenn!
You would be surprised at how often I reconsider the facts and change my opinion. On this one Iāve done it often and entertained a side I would not normally be on. I have a deep knowledge that I can be wrong. With that in mind this is my last post.
To give an example of changing my mind I thought the Cracked article on gamer gate was an epic takedown. Then I read some things that werenāt cracked and came back to the article a few days later only to discover it doesnāt address the meat of the argument. It takes a symbolic political stand. āDebunksā little things and claims victory while totally skewering Eron Gjoni. Everyone seems to be following their brave footsteps and it is just not brave in the least. Boing Boing has illustrated this article about Eron Gjoni with a turd.
The āmeatā of the Gamergate argument is cafeteria-grade tofurkey.
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Um ā¦ actually, no. Thatās not what people believe. No one believes that there is no gaming media corruption. No one has a problem with talking about it, writing about it, reporting on it.
See, the trouble is, you cannot use the GG tag without the shitstorm. And the easy fix to that is ā¦ donāt. These people can easily, easily report on media corruption and collusion without the hashtag. What a relevation!
And yet, the vast majority donāt. I wonder why that is*?
(*Actually, I donāt wonder. I know very well why they continue to beat the GG hashtag)
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Oh, so thatās Zoe Quinn? The reality TV producer really was an asshole asking sexist questions to abuse the developers. Good on her for leaving, too.
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