@Wanderfound, I suspect I know quite a bit more about what is going on in Russia than you do. I’m surprised at you making such a cheap crack. Here’s a hint: Just as Trump is not the entire US government and there are other actors, state and non-state involved, so Putin is far from the only power source in Russia.
Work it out; Communism collapsed around 1990. Yet the Communist Party still exists and gets significant vote share. A KGB officer who was in his 30s then is coming up to retirement now. And many of them are still angry at the US for causing the end of Communism. Putin harnesses that anger and resentment. His own views may be different.
It might be a good idea for you to read up on how an intelligence officer works. There’s enough information out there. Putin is first and foremost such an officer. He leverages.
It’s what happens when Propaganda fails. The cheap cracks in the thin veneer spread over reality show up. They aren’t as obvious by gaslight. 
Narcissists make fun of you when you don’t know the make, model, and year of the bus they just ran you over with.
WHY WEREN’T YOU PAYING ATTENTION RIGHT? HUH?? HUH??
/s
I for one can confirm that the Russian propaganda effort definitely overwhelmed the 1bn dollars spent by the HRC campaign in my perception. I was left thinking, “why am I bothering to vote for the Clinton dynasty, when I could vote for the Orange Cheeto half-wit instead?”
Then, I realized - I’m not allowed to vote in the US! So I voted Remain instead.
All I can think regarding this: capitalism at its finest. 
We REALLY need a Trexit referendum over this side of the pond.
Well, let’s look at what happened; then the solution everyone wants becomes totally crystal clear.
Some people said some things - some of which were true - to people who were going to vote. Then those people voted in ways that were obviously WRONG.
That’s clearly intolerable and must be dealt with, to the exclusion of all other things - we must ignore pollution, rising birth defect rates, increasing inequality, rising college costs and faltering public education systems (and of course the stream of executive orders from the dumpster fire in the white house) to focus on this truly important thing from the past. Billions must be spent! No custom, no law is too sacred to be overturned in this quest for absolute electoral purity!
Because, obviously, the solution everyone wants, as dedicated liberal paragons of justice and equality, is comprehensive censorship of political speech based on ethnic origin. It’s the only way to make sure the primitive, childlike minds of American voters are shielded from any information that might make them vote wrong.
We, the intelligentsia who have the ability to tell what is and isn’t filthy Russian propaganda based on the statements of people and institutions with a vested interest in lying to us, because real proof is too secret for us to know need to step up our efforts to instigate a new Cold War. It’s the only way we can get the absolute total control over the information reaching the electorate, and we all know that those people can’t be trusted to make up their own minds, they need our guidance, by which of course we mean censorship getting rid of lying Russian propaganda.
I candidly admit to being affected by propaganda. Everytime I listen to that ffing crap on NBC I am affected, Everytime I listen to some idiot on CNBC I am affected. Usually the effect is rage but sometimes I suffer from boredom or nausea. The Russian propaganda when I see it is pretty ffing obvious too, but usually focuses on stuff I already know like America is a shit place to be black or poor. That’s the thing about good propaganda - it isn’t about telling you lies but about focusing your attention away from some stuff towards other stuff.
For example, the DNC ran a shit campaign and a shit candidate and on merit pretty much none of them would have gigs - however rather than have you, the Democratic party voter, think about that its way better to say RUSSIANS!!! really loud.
And luckily that’s precisely what the current cabal of foreign policy “experts” would like you to think about in the US. Its not that US domestic policy is crap, and kills god knows how many Americans from preventable illness or execution by cop, or that US foreign policy is crap and has been involved in a global unwinnable and incredibly expensive war for 16years, its RUSSIANS!!!
Which is why we need to keep giving these “expert” people jobs and money.
But you feel free to keep thinking RUSSIANS!!! - if it makes you feel better.
Laughable. Ffing Russia has an economy the size of Portugal and its still responsible for everything wrong in America.
I know! Brilliant GIF, and very well done.
Make America Cold Again
Never underestimate the power of advertising.
A really scary aspect of this is that, if I remember my psychology correctly, a lot of these people will double down on their beliefs as a way of proving to themselves that they weren’t swayed by Russian propaganda.
Locally produced, fairly traded, and organic.
True. My understanding is that part of the tactic was to fan flames, create/strengthen divisions, and up the emotional aspect past the point of any potential for discussion. This is why they were funding things pro and con Black Lives Matter.
When the propaganda has a message that resonates with you, it is even harder to discredit it
It wouldn’t be the same BS, because the Kremlin’s motivations are different than any internal groups (create instability, undermine faith in US institutions, and disrupt relationships with allies are not usually high on the list of goals of people who worry that immigrants and brown people are preventing America from being great. )
Also, the domestic purveyors of BS don’t have the resources to run this kind of campaign.
In mine, which is the OED 
, it means “the systematic dissemination of information, esp. in a biased or misleading way, in order to promote a political cause or point of view.”
OED provides examples of this use of the term back to 1822.
Did he by any chance cover the “appeal to authority” logical fallacy in your class? 
Sigh. Ok, I’l toast Wanderfound’s English teacher. Cheers. But, the OED definition does require it to be the systematic dissemination which means something beyond casual conversation, the usual BoingBoing comments, etc, to something more state level, or, at least, movement level.
He was getting a suspicious amount of support on right wing radio.
Eh, they still won by 3 million votes. Just not quite in the right places. All those issues you mention are important, but so is who is in power and why.
Someone other than me had an interesting idea: Don’t think of Putin as the leader of Russia, but rather as the leader of the global kleptocracy, of which Trump and many of our leaders are part. It is they that are at war with with the Western values such as the rule of law.
This makes sense to me.
But that’s reasonable. You hear a known partisan saying something and you know it’s a partisan statement.
This was not like that.
Please don’t get too blinded by these seemingly huge numbers being thrown around. The Russian operation was pretty small compared to the quantity of equally divisive content authored by Americans.
Allowing Facebook, Google and Twitter get away with only tackling foreign manipulation would be like declaring drunk driving legal as long as your car’s made in the USA.
The problems are deeply rooted in the business model these companies are built around, and unless they’re forced to change it’s only going to get worse.
See also: Zeynep Tufekci’s recent TED talk.
Clinton got everything she wanted.
She wanted Trump to run for the GOP nomination. He did.
She wanted the mainstream media to promote his candidacy with as much free media as they could muster. They did.
She wanted the Party rules tweaked so that she and only she could be nominated. They were.
She wanted news media to find some dirt on Trump. They did.
She wanted news media to downplay or forget any dirt on her. They mostly did.
She wanted to win the popularity vote. She did.
Funny thing about freedom of speech.
Russians don’t have it, in our election process.
False equivalence is false.
Allowing Facebook, Google and Twitter get away with only tackling foreign manipulation would be like declaring drunk driving legal as long as your car’s made in the USA.
and super false equivalence is super false
Well here is the thing, I think political ADS are less the problem, and its the Memes and bullshit “fake news”. While the official ads can you see on TV and come from the mainstream players can contain half truths - the Russian stuff, stuff shared on facebook, infowars, the pundit websites, just assholes making memes - those are the ones spreading the most vile and viral shit. It isn’t advertising, its just gossip and sharing of bullshit. You can’t really regulate that. And the way our minds work, this shit just reinforces your opinion even if it is BS.
And while we are focused on the Russian targeting of the Trump voters, make no mistake the SAME BS was being done targeting the Democrat voters. Even within their own party with Hillary vs Sanders.
I am going to keep sharing this until everyone in the world sees it.
OH no - a wall of text. Give me something in one or two sentences that reinforces my views so I can go on thinking I am so smart for having the same view as said sentence(s).
Haha - so you’re taking my bait to illustrate that a solution to this is going to be very, very hard to come by. Even if it is possible to block entities who are from foreign states, or are funded by them directly (which this is Facebook, not the CIA), you still have the impossible task of cleaning up the BS from Domestic sources. It just isn’t going to happen.
For sure the Russians didn’t HELP things, but I honestly don’t think we would have had a different outcome with out them. Unless it turns out they straight up hacked the voting machines.
Tovarishch, in the steppes and the Caucasus as the nomads and villagers gather round their fires they talk of nothing but how their candidate was robbed of the nomination at the DNC. Whether they pronounce it Gillary or Khillary, they spit as they mention her name and tell one another how if they had been Putin’s #2 they’d have nailed her good and proper. They go on about the old Belaya Voda* scandal, and how if they had been in charge there would have been prosecutions. “Berni Sanders”, they say " is a man schooled in dialectic and endowed with a true understanding of Marxism-Leninism. He would deal with these revisionists, kulak-lovers and betrayers of the proletariat."
Then they get out their satellite phones and make angry posts on vkontaktye.
*White water. But you guessed that.
when you’re on, you’re on.
Agreed. It’s deliberate messaging for a particular purpose. That can of course be through ‘casual’ conversations, BBS comments, etc. But it does require deliberate intent to spread a particular message.
Absolutely correct.
Any law which restricts what can be posted on Facebook can also restrict what can be posted on boingboing.
