For a good chunk of its history, the wold Middle Earth is on was FLAT and was lit by two giant lamps. You don’t even both trying to scientifically justify that.
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He does acknowledge near the end of the Tolkien article that Tolkien’s work predates the theory of plate tectonics, yet somehow considers this an “overly generous pass”. Yes, you’re so magnanimous to give the author a pass for not basing his fictional map on a real life theory that didn’t even exist yet.
Between that and the comments on his other article… Christ, was an asshole.
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Like The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant, though admittedly that one is a barely-disguised transhumanism allegory.
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Sure but those constraints don’t necessarily have to follow the rules of science as we know it. The existence of magical forces in itself means that the rules of reality operate differently in the fantasy world. Perhaps you could argue that the world should be self-consistent and comprehensible, but there’s no requirement that everything except the magic has to be like our reality.
Many years ago I was in a position of reading slush for a publisher of fantasy novels in New York, and many of these were submitted with the author’s own hand-drawn maps. As you might imagine, they varied quite a bit in quality. Some were quite elaborate, some were done on a typewriter with slash marks for mountains. Since many of the manuscripts were sent in as disposable copies, I saved the maps in a binder. So when you think the maps in the books are bad, you know, it could be worse.
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I agree, I think it’s important to separate the concept of making rules and consistency from the concept of “explaining.” The way things work the way they do can and often should remain mysterious and supernatural. If an author can’t remain vague while also being clever and consistent that is a problem that can’t be addressed by simply strapping the supernatural to mundanity. Of course It can be a fun exercise to ground magic in extensions of real world phenomena, but be forewarned, that way lies Midi-Chlorians.
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I mean you can still look at the Earth as an example of what kinds of things mountains and rivers do, and if mountains on earth never make right angles and rivers don’t run parallel to them, you might take that into account.
I feel like you can bork with the normal rules of physics, geology, or whatever, when you have some specific reason to and you shout it out. Mt Doom, fine. If a mountain chain follows a completely random path because each peak rose up to meet the footprint of a dancing god, fine. But basically, if your explanation for something is “Other,” you have to write in the box, not just fill in the bubble.
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The important thing about a map is that it takes you where you want to go.
And - as always - not to confuse the map with the territory.
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For example the Willow/addiction story-line in Buffy.
Certainly some of my favorite bits.
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Tolkien might have been writing (was writing) before plate tectonics was a thing, but his mountains still don’t look anything like real-life mountains.
Although I get it: the Valar or whoever built them that way.
This would make an awesome book, which I would buy.
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Welcome to why I hate having to put a map down. I know i don’t have the knowledge to do a GOOD job and god knows i don’t want to look t wheel of time’s geography with any sort of eye for geologic consistency because i don’t want to end up ripping my hair out.
At some level this is about how knowing more than the author (or illustrator) can ruin one’s ability to suspend disbelief. Kind of like watching a war movie with a reenactor (But they have the wrong belt buckles!) or seeing Zootopia with an ex zookeeper (But they don’t HAVE upper teeth. And what do the obligate carnivores eat?) It is interesting to note that the the book Reamde is about a MMORPG that was created to have realistic geography in exactly the way that most people don’t bother with.
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Wow, never had a post of mine get linked to Boing Boing before. Whee!
One way that Alex (who is a friend and cohost on Skiffy and Fanty with me) and I agree is something we didn’t explicitly state in our posts, maybe because it was too obvious.
Sure, Tolkien’s world can be attributed to “The Valar/Morgoth/Sauron/Eru Ilúvatar did it” and that’s why it makes no sense from a geologist’s perspective. However, given the formative nature of Tolkien’s works, including his maps, it has lead to a ton of maps in fantasy novels just as nonsensical, and without Tolkien’s cosmology as a reason for it. Its led to a lot of bad habits for worlds and maps in fantasy ever since.
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This. If part of the story explains that this world was not created through physical, geological processes, then geological complaints just don’t apply. If it bothers you anyway, fine, but it isn’t an internal problem for the map or the world, as long as you have reasonably consistent systems for magic and godhood.
I mean, Middle Earth was made flat and only became round when Iluvatar “bent” it to sink Numenor beneath the waves to punish men for trying to attack the city of the gods. Middle Earth didn’t even have a sun until after millennia of constant night, followed by two lamps (constant daytime), followed by two trees. And then, the sun and moon themselves are literally pieces of fruit flown around by demigods. Plus the entire world is only tends of thousands of years old. It would be really weird if it looked like it had been shaped by plate tectonics, or even erosion, in any meaningful way.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with his remaining complaints.
Edit to add: Actually, I might go further and argue that the premise of bending a flat world into a round world is a physical process that could conceivably produce right-angled mountain ranges in some places to relieve the strain of lower levels of rock being compressed, especially if the curvature happened first along one axis, then the other.
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Fish and insect protein.
(Byron Howard posted a FAQ…)
I think Zootopia is a good example of why not to overthink things. The movie is a parable. But it is easy to try to make it more than that because it is SO . . . FREAKING . . . DETAILED. That “entering Zootopia” sequence, where the bunny gawks at the sectors of the city, is like the most science-fictional thing I’ve seen in decades. You look at the giant refrigeration units at the border of Tundra Town blowing the waste heat onto Sahara Square, and you think you’re looking at a serious attempt to imagine a multi-species city. (And you wonder what they’d make of a primate visiting the place becasue man, what a freaking cool city…)
But again . . . Zootopia is a parable. You can’t shouldn’t overthink it.
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This person miss the point in some many levels… Just google some “medieval maps” and you can realize where the inspiration for these fantasy maps come.
p.s. I’m also a geologist 
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I suppose I shout Put Up:
In the early 90s I wrote a solitaire adventure for the Tunnels & Trolls game system. “Dark Temple,” still in print in the sense that the initial print run never run out. (You can get a free PDF set of the T&T rules and buy the solo adventure from Flying Buffalo if you want; I got a flat fee so that’s just doing my publisher a favor.) The adventure is set in a very vaguely defined fantasy land; that was deliberate, so you could imagine it being anywhere. I had no map, just an idea in my head consistent enough to plot out routes through a wilderness.
A few years back I was contacted by someone working on the French translation. He was pretty demanding; I found a lot of inconsistencies and bad “connections.” He also wanted to nail down a description of the fantasy kingdoms, and a map! That’s my submitted draft up above; editor Steve Crompton did a good job on the final version.
The geography is based on the descriptions in the book, which I started writing in the mid 80s.
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I created these maps some years ago for my homebrew Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting, the mainland map is mostly right but it lack many details (the players are meant to discover them). The city map is meant for the players to get a proper reference of where things are on the city and the general city geographic and urban features like cliffs, plazas, parks and marshes. The third map is my super nebulous map of the eastern side of the northern continent, only for the players if they ask what the rest of the know continent is like (discovery is part of the adventure).
Medium size map, not for printing. Original is print in A3 size.
Small size map, not for printing. Original is print in A3 size.
Original size, web only.
I love world building!
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Or this!
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