How do you think cops in the UK would have dealt with a situation like this? How about Germany, or Japan or Iceland? This is only inevitable if you accept that a militarized police force is the only way to maintain social order.
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Itâs our armed and violent society that has produced what you describe as a âmilitarizedâ police force.
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January 5th, interview on MSNBCâs âThe Last Wordâ
(Transcript: http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/the-last-word/2016-01-05)
FINICUM: I have been raised in the country all my life. I love dearly to
feel the wind on my face, to see the sunrise, to see the moon in the night.
I have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.
And, so, whatever days, and I believe that there will be many, and
hopefully prosperous days to come, I will spend them riding my horses,
trying to take care of my cows. And, that is what I will do but I will not
spend it in a box.
DOKOUPIL: So, to avoid getting in that box, you are ready to do what?
FINICUM: You guys have so many hypothetical questions.
DOKOUPIL: If they come here and try to arrest you, they point a gun at
you, they try to put cuffs on you, how far are you willing to take this?
FINICUM: Well, do not point a gun at me. You do not point a gun at
somebody unless you are going to shoot them. That is the first thing your
thought is do not point guns at people. And, so, I am telling them right
now, do not point guns at me.
DOKOUPIL: So, you are prepared to die. Better dead than in a cell.
FINICUM: Absolutely. Would you like to be in a cell? Nobody wants to
live their life in a cell. Absolutely, I am not going to live my life in a
cell.
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I would think that if someone in Britain, Germany, or Iceland declared publicly and frequently that theyâd never be taken alive and would use their gun as needed, was known to be armed and dangerous, and then tried to murder a policeman with their car, theyâd likely be either fired upon or taken out with non-lethal weaponry if they tried to reach for their gun at a blockade.
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I want to preface my comments with this statement first, because sometimes my comments are misconstrued, usually because I donât communicate my point clearly enough. I never have, nor never will support the actions of this particular group of people. I do however like to play devils advocate only because the real truth of what occurred tends to be somewhere near the middle of both sides of a story. That does not mean I side with any particular group.
Absolutely. But there are those people out there that usually blame an unarmed arrestee that has been shot and killed for not following law enforcementâs every command every command (coincidentally those arrestees tend to be people of color).
I severely doubt they will release audio. It leaves too much up to interpretation. Lets say (hypothetically of course) that Finicum was attempting to communicate to officers that he had a loaded gun in that pocket, but he couldnât be heard over the officers yelling commands to lay on the ground. That would bolster Bundyâs claim that Finicum was shot is cold blood. Also, and this is always a huge misconception with with any audience viewing any video of police encounters with suspects, both sides have massive amounts of adrenaline pumping through their systems, both sides are convinced that the other is wrong, both sides are convinced that the other will kill them at any moment, both sides will make mistakes, and in those moments someone will die. I sympathize with both sides because it was a scary situation. We can Monday Morning Quarterback all we want about what happened. But without actually being a part of that situation and knowing the thought process of all the parties involved, we can only use our own experiences/thoughts/motivations as a bases for what happened.
I see it time and time again in officer involved shootings - tensions are high, flight or flight has kicked in for everyone involved, the suspect does something that seems asinine to the people viewing the video after the everything has played out. But the people watching that video seems to forget that what the combination of high stress and flight or flight does to the thought process.
For all we know Finicum thought it was a good idea to throw the gun away to show that he wasnât a threat and was giving up, or he had every intention of shooting he way out of the standoff. Unfortunately, law enforcement only had his previous comments of shooting anyone who attempted to stop them from doing what they intended to do.
For all we know the officer who threw himself in front of the speeding truck was hoping to push the militia (or terrorists) further into the snow to prevent them from getting around the road block, and not intentionally placing himself in a situation where he and his fellow officers had the right to open fire on a vehicle that was attempting to run him over.
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I just watched that portion of the clip a whole bunch of times and itâs almost as if we werenât watching the same clip. What I saw was the truck going toward the roadblock, and after he had already started to swerve off the road, the officer runs out in front of him. Looked pretty scary for the officer, but I canât fathom how you can watch it and interpret what youâre seeing as âaiming directly for the officerâ.
Donât get me wrong, I still think this was as clear a case of suicide by cop as any Iâve ever heard of.
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What I notice most here is that the FBI KNEW for a fact he was armed. His behavior was less than cooperative from the beginning, and they also had every logical reason to conclude that he would be inclined to pull out a weapon and fire at them.
and yet, it seems from the video ONE shot was fired to put him down. No one unloaded an assault rifle on him. No one emptied their entire clip. 15 FBI agents didnât descend on him with bullets blazing.
All the local police issues we have seen over the last few years clearly demonstrate the issue is in the people hired to be police officers.
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Bundyâs initial claim (as stated by his father) was also that Finicum was unarmed, so heâs going to need a lot of bolstering.
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Have you been in a helicopter before? The pilot and copilot have to communicate via headset across a distance of a couple feet itâs so loud. The audio would have consisted only of helicopter engine noise.
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If that were true, Trump would have lost most of his supporters for straight up lying to them about every time he opens gaping maw. Bundyâs supporters will still find fault in the actions of law enforcement. Bundyâs group doesnât seem concerned about mass approval (much like most terrorist groups). They only need to reach the people who think similarly enough and are easily manipulated.
**edited my comment âBundyâs group isnâtâŚâ to âBundyâs group doesnât seemâŚâ only because I donât want to seem like I know 100% the intentions of their group.
Not sure how it was shyte. The Rifle Flanker on the left kept all potential targets (i.e., the other wackos in the truck) in his line-of-sight. Had he gone to his left he would have both entered into Finicumâs line-of-sight and potentially put the truck between him and the active threat. By continuing to move to his right and down, Rifle Flanker got out of the crossfire of the next closest officer, the one standing in the snow path cleared by the truck.
I think itâs possible this is how Ryan Bundy got his injury, could be that Rifle Flankerâs high-bore shot went clean through LaVoy through the truck, and nipped Little Undy.
Maybe for normal helicopters, but not for Blue Thunder. Is it a coincidence that color of the UN is blue? 
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Yeah I was kind of confused by that. My guess is the officer thought the driver was going to try to squeak by around the roadblock on the shoulder - where he was standing - and so was about to dive for the snow bank. Then he realized the truck was headed for the snowbank and stopped himself in time.
As to the driverâs motivation, the only thing I can think of to account for that driving was maybe he was thinking of trying to squeak by on the shoulder, then realized at the last second this wasnât going to be possible - by which time it was far too late to stop before the roadblock using brakes, so the only way to avoid a head-on collision was to put the truck in the ditch.
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About 6:28 onward there are a number of flashes of flame around the terroristsâ truck - does anyone know what those are?
Armed nutjob whoâs known to have violent intentions almost runs down a cop⌠to paraphrase a simpsons character, thatâs a shootinâ.
I think theyâd have shot him, but the shooting would have resulted in enormous scrutiny and a special public inquiry with bewigged lords and armies of lawyers and all that poring over the minutiae. The thing is, how would you get to this scenario in the UK in the first place?
Consider âarmed occupation of a government building.â If that happened in the UK all bets are off. Theyâd probably be slaughtered by the SAS the first night.
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This guy would be dead in any of those countries. All of the countries you mentioned have heavily armed police units that are trained to deal with terrorists. When Iranian terrorists took over the embassy in London, the UK sent the SAS to kill them. They didnât send a bunch of unarmed bobbies.
ETA: Rob beat me to it.
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The same way, I think. The guys are and were known to be armed and indicated that they would use them. I would hope that the police in those other countries would be prepared to defend themselves. Iâm not arguing for gun violence, I never would.
Also, with the length of the stand-off I would think that police in ANY country could probably have had guns manufactured and sent by snail mail.
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From this video, itâs not clear whether he tried to hit a cop, nor is it clear that he reached for a gun. Maybe he did, but a lot of comments here are uncharacteristically credulous when it comes to this particular police narrative.
Setting all that aside, though, it is not necessary for police to create confrontations like this. Once the road was blocked, there was no realistic possibility that this guy was going to escape. They had eyes in the sky, cops everywhere, and nothing but snowy forest for miles in every direction. There was no urgency or threat to the situation except that which was created by the police confrontation.
We all know that itâs dumb to reach in your pockets while cops are pointing guns at you, because regardless of your intentions itâll probably end with you dying. But itâs also dumb for cops to create armed confrontations where the only possibilities are immediate and perfect compliance or death, because regardless of police intentions itâll probably end with them killing someone.
I have to agree. Itâs important to note that Finicum made a lot of statements that he intended to go down fighting so the cops had good reason to be paranoid. That being said some of the shootings here involved people reaching for pockets or waistbands while making threatening statements and people still thought it was murder. The consensus that this shooting is justified just doesnât feel consistent.
Iâm curious to see what the reaction on the right will be. They didnât have much sympathy for black victims of police shootings, are they going to be more sympathetic now that itâs a white militia member? (note that the right turned on the Oregon militia a while ago so they might still blame him)
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Because the NWO/ZOG black helicopter flights are ordered to respect the habitat of the endangered something owl, even as they violate American Sovereignty, clearly. âEnvironmentalistâ influence on the shadow government is almost as omnipresent as it is pitiful in real life.
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