Good points. One Netflix series set in an office in South Korea made me wonder how much of that was fictionalized, because the amount of drinking was significant. Sometimes there were employees trying to get out of it, but they got dragged along by their peers. Also, a few were bullied into drinking more by those who insisted on making toasts (and I guess it was considered rude to refuse). How anyone performs well at work after all that, I have no idea.
Agreed. Still, I wonder how much of this activity is designed to prevent people from forming outside bonds and interests. Places that do this at lunch and after work must leave little time for socializing with others. There is a financial hit to going out that much, too, which doesn’t benefit the worker but does fit in with the “keep 'em broke” model of corporate control. After decades of work/life imbalance and having company priorities take over personal time, I guess some workers feel more lost without it.
Maybe I avoided that because there’s nothing I liked about working in an office. TBH, when people comment about not knowing what they’ll do with themselves during retirement it’s hard to know what to say. It’s not clear if that’s due to never having other interests, or if they replaced old ones with work-related stuff. Between books, hobbies, and other forms of entertainment, I’m not sure a few decades is enough time to finish them all. It makes me even angrier when I see pols and business owners casually saying people should work until they are in their 70s (or until they drop, whichever comes first). Maybe they’re hoping the booze will help workers to swallow that bs.
this is just a ‘I read a while back on the internet’: South Korea has a strong workplace drinking culture, including such things as “if your boss serves you, you accept it”. I found an wikipedia article which collects similar such things: Drinking culture of Korea - Wikipedia
Ok, I saw one show with people going through what seemed like a very grueling interview process. There were no questions about alcohol, though. The thought of being asked about that before even getting the job is just …
Mr. T had argued that the “fun” culture in the company involved “humiliating and intrusive practices” including mock sexual acts, crude nicknames and obliging him to share his bed with another employee during work functions.
Interviewing for work in Antarctica there were questions about how much you drank, but my suggestion that they hire people who just didn’t drink much was scoffed at. And the whole place was considered your workplace so doing dumb drunk things after your shift could get you shipped home. And who decided what constituted a dumb thing bad enough to send you home was often cloudy-your boss, someone who thought you weren’t funny, the NSF, you might never know.
This annulled a previous judgment by the Paris Court of Appeal in 2021. The rejection of a request for €461,406 (£400,000/$484,000) in damages was partially overturned, and Cubik was ordered to pay Mr T €3,000, with further damages to be determined at a later date.
The Pound is slightly bigger than the Euro at the time of writing this, though our government is working hard on this, so this may be €3,000. Hope he gets a good chunk more with the final settlements: this bullying needs to die.
Yikes! The expectation of after-hours drinking seems like the least of it. Honestly surprised the company didn’t get severely slapped down well before this…
Well, to be fair, France actually has worker protection laws (unlike the US), so…
Yeah, South Korea is pretty infamous for its workplace drinking culture - Japan, too, but less so nowadays, I think. I worked for a couple South Korean-owned companies, with Korean co-workers, and the stories they told… working late, then going out drinking with the company until the wee hours, then going to a sauna for a few hours and then back to the office… It’s a lifestyle that combines the disadvantages of being extremely high stress with terrible productivity.
In Japan (before the pandemic anyway), it is now perfectly acceptable to order ginger ale or other non-alcoholic drinks, but you are still expected to go to the drinking parties.
From your linked post" “Fun & pro, that’s our motto!”
“OK, interviewer for the company, before we risk wasting each other’s time, define ‘fun’. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
This is why the pandemic work from home situation was a boon for antisocial mutants like me. I didn’t have to talk to my co workers unless I needed something from me.
‘First time I’ve gotten a programming job that required a drug test.
I was worried they were going to say “you don’t have enough LSD in
your system to do Unix programming.”’
Any time I had to say goodbye before leaving a job, it was the same remark delivered with a slightly sad expression:
“After working here, I’m leaving with mixed emotions… [muttered behind hand] joy and happiness.”
Reminds me of something I told co-workers who felt compelled to drive in to work despite hazardous road conditions. I’d say, “A week after you’ve died, you know there will be a group around the water cooler saying, ‘Remember them? That accident was a damned shame. So, where are we going for lunch today?’”
My understanding is that it is a big deal in Japanese business culture as well.
I like going out with friends from work occasionally, especially when field people I haven’t seen in a while come to the main office. But I don’t expect anyone to go who doesn’t want to. Even implying that it’s expected is across the line in my book. Just like folks who would rather work from home but are being forced into the office by needy managers, the effectively-mandatory social gatherings are bullshit.
[muttered behind hand] joy and happiness.”