While I disagree with your conclusion, your comment reminded me of a function of the press that doesn’t get mentioned very often: the sanitization of violence and injury.
When terrorists cut off Nick Berg’s head with a knife, I took the press at their word that this had happened.
When Daesh set aflame the Jordanian pilot and filmed him burning alive, I took the press at their word that this had happened.
Because I am not watching that shit, nor do I want to know any more detail about their execution than what can be captured in a single verb. Their deaths are tragic enough.
The video currently being discussed is, relative to these two extreme examples, far more nuanced in terms of individual motivations, reactions, split-second decisions, and, of course, the law.
I rely on journalists to relay the essential facts of this event because—again—I am not watching that shit.
This isn’t a problem that needs to happen. It’s a problem that was created and if we treated somebody else’s citizens like we treated some of our own it’d be a war crime (Not that we’re big on accountability for those anyway.)
A lot of unnecessary preventable deaths of innocent civilians can be directly connected to this policy and it needs to end across the board in 100% of the country. It’s criminal.
Would “doing exactly what they have been trained to do” be a third option, or does that fall under the category of “no clue they are making fatally terrible judgement calls?”
That is how I would react yes, but I am a pacifist and I can’t imagine how I would get into a situation in which I was pointing a gun at another human in the first place. In this country, we have cops who are trained to shoot if they believe they are in danger and that is what happened here.
What they’ve been trained to do is shoot people, then say “I feared for my life” under any and all circumstances, collect a few weeks paid vacation, “retire” and apply for a job as a cop or sheriff two counties over. Rinse repeat.
It could all be ‘Man my monkey ate my lighter’ or ‘My dad’s truck is hella nice’ or any number of things.
Also completely not relevant. Even if he had said that they could’ve just gotten into their car and backed away. They’ve got a lot of street cleared already and could easily have immobilized his vehicle. That’s a long fucking walk to anywhere and if worse comes to worse there’s always nonlethals or any number of other solutions.
‘really quick shoot him just in case even though we totally created and escalated this ourselves, and then execute him now that we know he’s helpless’ should be like number 4297 on the list of options.
At first glance it seems like suicide by cop. But then I realized the police started this by pulling him over for minor if any reasons. He didn’t start this they did. So the biggest reach would be cops randomly coming across a suicidal person. More than likely he was just confused for any of a dozen possible reasons. Whether or not this is justified under policy is mostly irrelevant. It was preventable and everyone would have gone home happier if it were prevented.
I’d agree with this. This guy was mentally unstable and the cops don’t seem to have the proper training to deal with that.
Once you accept that the cops didn’t know how to de-escalate I think the initial shots make sense, reaction times are not instant and if the guy did have a gun he could raise it and fire before the cops could react.
But at the end he’s injured and in a very awkward position, I’m not sure how they could legitimately feel threatened enough to fire.
I watched and listened to the video. I didn’t hear the victim at all. All l heard was repeated shouts for the victim to show both hands–both of which, by the way, I could see in this crappy footage. He swung his hands out briefly, but it was very clear to me that he didn’t have a gun in his hand. I imagine the police had an even clearer sight line.
It is sad. I just think in this case we’ve proven we need to take the lead from some other countries, and not everybody has this problem.
They’re on the wrong side of the risk equation. It’s supposed to be balanced towards the civilians, not the large number of armed and armored officers with hardened police cruisers.
It’s completely relevant. He’d just spent the last minute and a half acting really squirely and, reaching behind his back (where people sometimes keep handguns), and holding an object that was could be easily mistaken for a gun.
Walking towards a cop, holding a gun-looking object behind your back, and yelling “I f**king hate my life” is a very good way to convince the cop you’re about to start shooting at him.
I think the cops could have de-escalated better, and I don’t understand the additional shots on the ground, but the initial two shots seem justifiable in that circumstance.
I support your right not to watch it. I am only curious as to why you would trust the headline? Don’t you know that journalists use the most inflammatory headline possible as click bait just to get views?
It was painful to watch, so by all means, don’t. But stay skeptical and don’t believe everything you read.
I could be completely wrong, but I thought I heard him say “Go ahead I hate my lif–” right before the initial shot.
Doesn’t excuse any of this. I don’t think cops are trained properly for mental health problems or in de-escalation techniques. I’ve seen videos of UK cops dealing with drunks there, de-escalating situations where US cops would’ve skipped straight to shooting the guy. More guns here than there, obviously, but surely suicide by cop is common enough that they realize someone might fake having a gun because they’re in mental distress?
I linked the exact time segment, here it is from the other body cam.
I can understand disagreeing on interpreting the circumstances, you might even think he yelled something different, but I don’t see how you can claim that he yelled nothing when the evidence is right there.
Then we’re in firm disagreement. I think part of the problem is that they’re trained to take lives so easily, and you’ve been desensitized to it so much you rationalize it so easily.
It’s a manufactured problem and it never needed to have been created. It’s better when the citizens don’t see the police as a threat, and the people who changed the rules to make them this way are the source of this issue.
We shouldn’t be looking for excuses to shoot, only excuses not to shoot.
No shots fired, nobody seriously injured. But it is still a significant scandal, the idiot cop is certainly in deep shit with his superiors, probably going to be fired and may be facing assault charges for the unjustified knee-drop.
If he’d actually shot the guy, he’d probably be facing manslaughter charges.
I’ll have to listen again. But his body language seemed more animated than I expected from a depressed person. I thought he seemed high, actually. I went to college in this city and grew up south of Fresno, and this area is known as a big drug consumption/production location.
Yep. That’s why I don’t have much to say on the event itself right now. I’m waiting to read about it in the Times, WaPo, WSJ, and Guardian. Multiple sources FTW.
