Fresno cops execute unarmed teen

Have you ever taken a police class, or done ride-alongs with the cops? These guys were bending over backwards not to shoot the guy.

If he hadn’t been first holding his hand behind his back, then later trying to reach for his waist under his shirt, I suspect they would have found another way of subduing him instead of shooting. Since he gave every indication of having a weapon, he took the less-lethal choice away from them when he then started advancing on them while still holding his hand behind his back.

In other words, you either didn’t watch the two body cam videos and listen to what they were telling the guy, or you haven’t a clue in hell what all of that meant, and you’re talking from sheer ignorance.

You’re just driving along doing nothing wrong and minding your own business. Oh and you’re a sullen teenager.

Next thing you know you’re being pulled over by cops with guns pointed at you yelling at you. You’re rightly freaking out right now and certainly not in your right mind. Stop! Get on the ground! Don’t move! Show me your hands! Drop it! Don’t move! You’re being yelled contradicting orders while guns are drawn on you. I can see many people having a mental BSOD at this point.

I’ve seen the video and the police started out as the aggressors and only further escalated the situation. The driver of the police car had his gun out while he was driving for fuck sake. Yes, what the kid was doing could be considered shady but I never saw an immediate threat - certainly nothing justifying shooting him multiple times. He certainly wasn’t the aggressor here.

And now you’re on the ground, in shock and pain, bleeding while continuing to be yelled at. You may not even hear what is being yelled at you at this point. You may not even realize your reaching for your shirt hem or pocket as you’re shot once again.

Looking at the video evidence I’m not seeing any time the police had an immediate threat to their lives nor did I see any reason to pull the guy over to begin with. I certainly didn’t see any point where deadly force was necessary.

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I watched it all the way through. Cowards and bad cops. I am disgusted by the folks on here defending or explaining the actions of these cops. So fuck off.

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Police are supposed to be the mythical “good guys with guns”, trained good guys with guns no less.

I think we’ve cleared up the myth/lie that “good guys with guns” results in less people being shot. :sob:

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I hate to bother @falcor by flagging so many posts in the same topic.

How do I choose?

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@falcor has an insatiable appetite, so flag away.

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I don’t actually know what’s worse, the random kid getting executed, that this is expected behaviour or that so many people find it not only excusable but almost laudable.

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personally…I leave the ones that seem legitimately trying to dialogue from a different perspective even if their perspective is unpopular…I flag posts that are intentional driving trollies, inflammatory, rude to other users, or contain inappropriate content.

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Exactly this. It’s easy to be an outside observer here and grouse on how he should have done this or that. It’s easy to be a tough guy on the internet after all.

It’s a far different thing when you unexpectedly have a gun or guns pointed at you and you’re the one being screamed at.

I would imagine many of us would struggle with this situation if it happened to one of us.

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I was amazed at the mother’s measured response, maybe it was quoted out of context, “Clearly the only appropriate response is to accept responsibility and commit to changing practices of the police department.”

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No way to know; but the sentiment is dead on, regardless.

Something needs to drastically change in the way LEOs are hired and trained; period.

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Also sorry that I cant like your comment; but Im all out.

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I already quoted what you wrote, and from what you wrote you’re trying to compare two distinctly different situations. You’re the person who first brought this up with @Melizmatic:

So in case you don’t quite get my point: why bring up Finicum? Because I see it as either arguing for the sake of arguing or just flat-out victim blaming, both of which violates the “be cool” BB code of conduct.

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So, you quoted what I wrote, then proceeded to mischaracterize it in order to try to discredit me for something I did not argue. Not really a point in your favor.

The two cases have commonalities and difference worth discussing as a way of getting around some of the very personal reactions that can arise in these discussions. For instance, does Finicum bear any culpability in his own death? What you characterize as “victim blaming” has the converse of always considering the cops guilty, and also always considering a person who is shot a “victim”. Finicum was part of an armed take over of Federal property who was trying to evade a legal traffic stop, for which authorities had a warrant. I think he had some culpability. The kid in this case? I think he did, too. Enough that justifies shooting him? That I don’t know. And no, that is not similar to some scum who blames rape victims - rape is never justifiable, and thus the victim is never to blame. Shooting, on the other hand, is sometimes legally, and morally, justifiable because the person shot is at fault, such as attempting a home take over, holding someone hostage at gunpoint, pointing a gun deliberately at a cop, etc. Does continuing to approach a cop and acting like you are reaching for a weapon count? I think that depends on circumstances.

In civil cases liability can be a percentage. I think in these cases the same thing is true in terms of culpability. The individuals who were shot performed actions that contributed to their deaths, as did the cops. Thus it isn’t an either or situation, but rather the balance of who is more culpable, and what could, or could not have reasonably been done differently.

I’m appalled by the over reactions of cops around the country. There are cases where those shot did absolutely nothing and the cops were 100% at fault - for instance, the case where trigger happy cops in search of a cop killer unloaded dozens of rounds into a pick up truck that was not even the same model as the on they were looking for, almost killing the two newspaper delivery women in it. And those cops got away with it. They should have been prosecuted for the same raft of charges a civilian would be, from negligent discharge to attempted murder.

Either or thinking is low effort cognition, and common to conservatives, who like to brand things “Right!” and “Wrong”, "Godly! and “Satanic”. Liberals, which I include myself as, are more likely to discuss nuance, to decide right or wrong, but not assume that it is some easy binary calculation in all instances.

Bingo.

What? Both male, both white?

I don’t give a shit. That person’s death has nothing to do with what happened in Fresno. Look at the title of this thread: Fresno cops execute unarmed teen. This topic is about a 19-year-old young man named Dylan Noble.

You keep trying to discuss something entirely off topic. You think that this will somehow offer enlightenment, but it won’t because at this point I will have (and I suspect the majority of others on this thread) stopped reading your posts.

I’m done.

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The title of the thread is the opinion of the person who wrote it, not an indisputable fact. Citing the title doesn’t prove your point, or theirs.

Certainly those count as some of the similarities, and that they were both approaching officers, both ignoring orders to stop, both reaching for what could be weapons, both plausibly attempting suicide by cop, both shot dead. These are not trivial points of correspondence, rather they are the key points in both cases: Is shooting someone who is doing those things justifiable? And, again, I think it depends on the exact circumstances.

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I think what is being missed here is how early the police drew their weapons, and that, my dear fellow mutants, shows intent. They had already decided to use force before they even stepped out of their vehicle. They were itching for an excuse.

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It certainly does make it plausible that they were exceeding the department’s authorized use of force guidelines. I wonder wonder under what circumstances, if any, driving with drawn weapons is considered safe by the department?

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interesting article, thanks!

one of the police trainers is quoted with

We try to make all police officers recognize that you are not a good guy if you are shooting. You are a good guy if you are not shooting.

does anyone believe this would work within the US’ canon of values?

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