Good job that didn’t happen! 
14 Likes
Oh, you’re going to be patronizing to try to get someone else to change your perception of them as patronizing. how quaint! And a lovely chip you have on your shoulder.
Spoken like someone with their own righteous leaders, and assuming it’s other people who have them! Brilliant work!!!
2 Likes
I suspect your problem is called credulity.
7 Likes
Alright, I asked what you would like to be different, what you would like to change. You responded by telling me what you are angry about right now. I don’t know what you actually want to happen. That seems like a good start, but I still really don’t know what you are hoping for. The one thing I got is:
But I really don’t know what that means. Suppose everyone was actually listening, everyone wanted to do what you wanted them to do if they could just understand what that was. What would you actually tell them to do?
When I read:
The reason I’m having trouble understanding is that you are talking about the media portrayal of gamergate itself - as if gamergate was about gamergate. What if we lived in a world where gamergate was never necessary because all of the things is proponents want were already true. What would that world be like? How would it be different?
But no matter how interested I am in hearing your point of view, that doesn’t mean I’m not going to provide a reality check:
Here is a pro-gamergate site’s history of gamergate: A People's History - A People's History of GamerGate. It clearly acknowledges that there is no way Quinn slept with anyone to get a review of her game (while at the same time taking Grayson to task for creating a perceived conflict of interest. Also, the “review” in question simply didn’t happen - it’s just that Depression Quest was one of the three games mentioned out of a bundle that was being promoted.
Here is Gjoni himself, on the very wordpress blog he used to make his claims against Quinn:
There was a typo up for a while that made it seem like Zoe and I were on break between March and June. This has apparently led some people to infer that her infidelity with Nathan Grayson began in early March. I want to clarify that I have no reason to believe or evidence to imply she was sleeping with him prior to late March or early April (though I believe they’d been friends for a while before that). This typo has since been corrected to make it clear we were on break between May and June. To be clear, if there was any conflict of interest between Zoe and Nathan regarding coverage of Depression Quest prior to April, I have no evidence to imply that it was sexual in nature.
If you are mad about gaming journalism, that’s one thing, but Zoe Quinn absolutely did not sleep with anyone to get a good game review. Let’s take the focus off of her and keep it on how things could be better. I hope that doesn’t, in your mind, mean going after Zoe Quinn in some way.
15 Likes
but they don’t deserve the coverage as much as his favorite games does.
The real evil, of course, is that these gamers (a small, loud, toxic number of them) have to deal with real world as soon as they log off, and pretty clearly that small number are unprepared to deal with the world as it is, and have some anger to work out.
2 Likes
Of course Nathan Grayson would deny everything because it would be a potential conflicts of interest if one of his reporters slept with Zoe Quinn. http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ from her ex boyfriend she cheated on all the sordid details. Everything swept under the rug using the pretence of #Gamersgate.
I quoted from http://thezoepost.wordpress.com when I said it was not true. Read it yourself. Gjoni says it didn’t happen. (The review part, he certainly still says she slept with a bunch of people)
Is there any way would could get past this point, though? I really wish I understood what you want. I feel like I’m going to walk away, once again, thinking, “He doesn’t want anything, he’s just full of undirected anger.” That isn’t my goal, I’m not saying that in a smug way. It’s just unfortunate, I wish people didn’t have to experience life like that.
I asked how things could be better? What could gaming press do differently aside from the way they talk about gamergate itself?
Gamergate is organizing boycotts. Back when I was university we boycotted Nestle because they were pushing baby formula as a healthier alternative to breast milk in third world countries with dirty water. They eventually stopped doing that. These organizations the gamergate is boycotting, what is it that they are doing that has to stop, or what is it that they are not doing that they have to start doing?
6 Likes
You’re linking the page @anon50609448 quoted. I take this to mean that you agree that Quinn did not at any point sleep with anyone to increase her profile or that of the game in question.
5 Likes
Wow, and there we have it. When asked to describe your problem statement around what GG is about the only name you use is not a journalist. There are always influencers for any journalist, so if that is what you care about ditch this SJW (srsly, wtf?) nonsense and focus on hardening reporters against any kind of influence.
7 Likes
Would you have been happier if she didn’t have a boyfriend? Is it the alleged cheating that makes you angry or the alleged sex-for-favors?
12 Likes
Can you decide on your position before posting it, rather than contradicting yourself in adjacent paragraphs?
I haven’t seen anyone claim that everyone who supports GamerGate is threatening women. That’s one of the more absurd strawmen I’ve seen erected in these forums.
5 Likes
Of course it is, because idiots like you are still supporting GamerGate even though (a) it was started as a harassment campaign, with the excuse of journalistic ethics as camouflage, and (b) it has mostly been discussion of female developers rather than anything to do with journalistic ethics.
If you sincerely want to have a discussion about journalistic ethics, the first thing you need to do is stop supporting GamerGate. and start a new discussion based on actual ethical principles. Every time you mention GamerGate (or “SJWs”), you derail any conversation about ethics in video game journalism.
Set out your proposed journalistic principles in a thread and we’ll discuss 'em.
8 Likes
Just a further note: If you feel like anything you say here will just be piled on, I’d still like to hear what you’d like to come out of gamergate, even if it’s in a private message. My goal is seriously not to create fodder for attacks, I just want to know if there is a result that people would like to come from their complaints and boycotts. And frankly, this goes out to everyone out there who is reading this who supports gamergate. I’d honestly like to listen to what this means to you.
Please note, though, that doesn’t mean I want a bunch of links to how Zoe Quinn is a slut or how Sarkeesian is a liar. I’d prefer to stay away from discussion of these women entirely, but if they are really an important part of the story to you, I don’t care about evidence right now. What do you believe and what would you like to see done about it?
5 Likes
You are too kind.
1 Like
Do you have a better approach? Her one is possibly the best to do now; ask questions, listen, repeat. There is a lot of misunderstanding going on on both sides, lots of projections, and the loud screams, aggressive posturing and reflexive reactions (good for in-group cohesion but not for inter-group discourse), and new almost daily (okay, about weekly, time flies) clickbait outrages will do approximately a metric nothing to reach mutual understanding.
1 Like
very well stated summary of GamerGate.
2 Likes
I explained how you could turn GamerGate “good”. Which leaves three possibilities: 1. You did not read what I wrote. 2. You did not understand what I wrote. 3. You do not care what I wrote.
And we as gamers are going to walk away as the losers in all of this…
Given the three items above, I agree, you are going to walk away a loser.
What in the article is not accurate? This is the second time I’ve asked you to detail what is not accurate.
I’m sort of being kind. I actually really, really want to know what people are hoping will happen. I just don’t get it. Gamergate’s main complaint appears to be about how people talk about and treat gamergate.
If you are black, gay, trans, old, short, etc., and you are mad about the way people treat black, gay, trans, old, or short people, then it makes a lot of sense to be mad about that. You didn’t really have a choice but to be that.
If you are part of a social movement that has an important goal to you, and people talk badly about that social movement, then it makes sense to get mad and to want to stick by your movement. Suffragettes were treated terribly, but getting women the vote was worth enduring.
But if you are a member of a group that is thought to be a hate group and you refuse to leave, there has got to be something there. You have to be defending some idea. “Ethics in games journalism” just sounds like a vacant phrase. I don’t want to put demands in people’s mouths, but I imagine something like, “Sites that report on games should publicly post a code of ethics that minimally includes: X, Y, Z. They should have a complaints mechanism to report cases where employees are not adhering to that code.” What are X, Y and Z?
But is that even it? Clearly such a code of ethics wouldn’t be worth the pixels it was formed out of if no other changes were made, and a complaints mechanism would just be another thing for people to complain about because it would be giving people who don’t feel their voices are being heard just one more way to use those voices that still largely won’t be heard.
Like I said, I feel like I’m going to walk away saying, “Yup, just more damage being done by an angry people who can’t figure out what to do with their anger.” That’s not a victory, it’s a shame. One of the craziest things about gamergate is that when asked what the point is, people say things like, “It’s a leaderless movement, there’s no list of demands,” as if that explained why they themselves were participating.
Ultimately, if we want to address gamergate, it feels like we have to address angry young men who just need somewhere to channel their anger. A real strategy for addressing gamergate would probably be after school programs and tackling youth unemployment. That would help with domestic terrorism and violent crime too, so it’s kind of win-win.
I said this is the fourth time I’ve asked this in a gamergate thread. I think I’m exaggerating and it’s really the third time, but whatever. No one answers. I don’t think that’s because they are really just provocateurs who are just here to stir things up, I think it’s because they just honestly never thought about it.
9 Likes
AMIGA POWER POLICY OF TRUTH
- We won’t review unfinished games just to claim an exclusive.
- We don’t pander to games publishers - we say what we really think.
- We only use experienced, professional reviewers.
- We won’t bore you with mountains of technical-jargon-hardware tedium.
- We take games seriously, because you do too.
Yay! AP2 is still up! (looks like it moved, though).
4 Likes
