His official cause of death hasn’t been released to the public.
And in the event that the guy did commit suicide, that does NOT in any way negate or absolve any of the harm he caused to anyone else while he was still alive.
30 Likes
On top of that, it’s not like the accusations against Holowka came out and his closest friends and family suddenly turned on him on the word of some internet commenters. As Scott Benson has tried to stress, he and his partner decided to drop Alex from future Night in the Woods projects because of how well they knew him, and how well the accusations stood up to scrutiny based on behaviors and patterns that they now had the ability to put into a broader context.
Wild, baseless accusations tend not to stick, and they also tend not to gain traction because they can’t be corroborated by people close to the accused or organizations like news outlets that are tasked with vetting them before going to print. It’s why people like Roy Moore and Brett Kavanaugh will always have a cloud over them because of the credibility of their accusers, while fabricated stories about people like Doug Jones, Rob Mueller, and Pete Buttigieg have fallen apart under even the most cursory of examinations.
30 Likes
Justice and contrition aren’t the same thing. I can be contrite as hell about stealing my investors’ life savings and leaving them destitute while I sip champagne in my mansion in a country that won’t extradite me, but that doesn’t mean I’ve received justice. And I couldn’t care less about the abuser’s reintegration back into polite society. If it happens, fine, I won’t scream. But if it never does, I figure that means the body politic has one less potentially cancerous cell.
Maybe, every now and then, an individual may be changed. But nothing will ever prevent the appearance of this kind of abuser. Nothing has ever prevented the commission of any type of crime or the appearance of any kind of slimeball. Tens of thousands of years of human civilization, of victims crying and decent people being disgusted and calling for change, and we still have the same kinds of slimeballs committing every kind of crime there is. Nothing ever changes.
1 Like
And where did I say they were… it’s why I made a list of things that many of us would like to see happen, which INCLUDES both justice for victims, and some genuine contrition on the part of perpetrators. Our current system of violence retribution for crimes does not do either of those remotely - the only people who tend to get anything useful out of our system are the rich, who can manage to get out of most forms of justice. And you don’t need contrition to deliver justice, it’s something that I would love to see happen more often, and that other systems of criminal justice in other places DO attempt to bring about (via things like individual and group therapy).
If that were true, we’d still be living in the trees, afraid of the big predators on the plains… instead, here we are, living in this shitty future. Things change all the time, and people make them change.
26 Likes
We absolutely still value innocence until proof has been provided, but somehow I never saw this type of handwringing about Bin Laden.He too faced accusations and tremendoues social sanction without ever facing criminal trial and no one called it mob justice. We have a reason for a particularly high bar for criminal accusations and an equally valid reason to not have a similar bar for social interaction. I can call the driver who cut me off on the road a dick, purely based on my testimony. I can refuse to go out to dinner with the person notorious for forgetting their wallet and leaving their dining partners with the tab. I can socially sanction someone on just the word of one or two people with no supporting physical evidence when I would be outraged if they were convicted on the same evidence at trial.
9 Likes
How many victims of violence end up committing suicide? Can we perhaps show at least as much compassion for them as for one of the perpetrators?
21 Likes
Ouch. I apparently adopted quite a few nasty values by association once I raised my concerns over the dangers of mob justice.
Well, I asked for it, and you are answering. Discourse is good, and I’m hoping to learn something.
This event is the example. A sample event in a potential future sea of them.
So yes, we are talking about misogyny, abuse, and the inherent prevalence of it in gaming. None of which I am disputing the existence of.
If you are saying I’m off topic, I’ll take that criticism and shut my mouth. As I’ve got no problem punishing anyone guilty of rape or sexual abuse, and I’ve got no argument with the observation that misogyny in the gaming industry, tech industry, and general western culture exists in copious amounts.
I am concerned about inevitably making a mistake. I feel like I stepped on a landmine for vocalizing concern that pillorying individuals in social media is a weapon of mass destruction and not particulary discriminating in its accuracy.
And I see some responses claiming that it has been quite accurate, more accurate than the justice system. A pretty damning and unfortunately supportable critique of the justice system.
I’m pretty disturbed by how much my comment was immediately attached with:
a) ignoring the victim
b) a belief the victims were responsible for his death (he was directly responsible for his own death, and arguably the mob and his peers were indirectly responsible)
c) that my comment regarding his “paying the ultimate price” was pulled out and criticized despite saying directly after that such a debt is not really payable. “…(in so much as such a debt can be paid.)”
I’m not ignoring the victim or blaming the victim because I am concerned about the dangers of justice being served via the jury of social media discourse.
I do not believe that any punishment actually is capable of paying the debt owed the victim, as no price can really be placed on the damage done. This applies to most crimes, not just rape or sexual assault. The debt is to society, outside of theft, debt to the victim is rarely something that can be quantified or ever adequately repaid.
1 Like
I know the rest of the post is about this point, but damn. Who the fuck can say that to a victim of abuse with a straight face? Or I guess “Tweet it with… straight fingers?” Or something.
My point is… I guess, just damn. I’m ashamed of the shitty members of my gender, and I hope a day comes when the tendency to blame and shame victims is just another historical oddity. I’m certain that won’t happen in my lifetime, unfortunately, but I would love to be wrong about that.
Which is easier if their fathers aren’t already full of the bad junk and seeding it into their children. I’m thinking specifically of one guy in my sphere when I say that. He’s atrocious and is raising two boys to be just like him. He’s a guy who, when his wife is menstruating, refers to her as “broken.” Hopefully they end up falling far from that poisoned tree.
22 Likes
Whenever someone says this, I seriously have to wonder if they’re talking about my older brother, whom I’ve pretty much disowned many years ago.
10 Likes
Agreed. The victim is under no obligation to consider the mental health of the accused.
The judge or jury should perhaps consider such a thing, not the victim.
2 Likes
Does he work for Loomis in Colorado Springs? If so… well. Here he is. I don’t suppose you would like to claim him and take him away?
4 Likes
Sorry, Tennessee. Aaaaah, too many of them!
9 Likes
No “mob justice” was involved in this case, including in the opinion of Holowka himself. So your concerns there are beside the point, a distraction.
Your deep concern is noted, but that’s not what’s happening here – not in Penny’s article, not in Cory’s FPP, not in the comments. This specific situation does serve as a jumping-off point for discussion about toxic masculinity in the game development industry, a topic a lot of men really would rather not discuss (preferring to talk about “ethics in game journalism” and legal technicalities instead). It also sparks a discussion about how differently male and female victims of trauma are treated in a society steeped in that toxic masculinity, another issue that a lot of men would prefer not be aired.
That’s a narrow view that’s being remedied, both in individual criminal cases and also for crimes committed against ethnic groups.*
[* most here will not be surprised to learn that the same men who really don’t want to talk about the issues above – especially the white ones – typically also really don’t want to discuss reparations and the recommendations of truth and reconciliation committees]
23 Likes
I once heard it said that old assholes never die
They just lay in bed and multiply
5 Likes
This, IMHO, is the crux of the problem. Your post (and its response) seems to be focused, almost exclusively. on making sure the currently-non-existant case of a falsely accused community member being unfairly targeted by an angry mob as your primary concern. Your focus seems to be on the concept of “justice” needing to be carried out, but at the same time point out that there really is no “justice” for victims, even when perpetrators are convicted in court. And then lastly, you suggest that the self-inflicted punishment of the alleged perpetrator in this case could be considered “the ultimate price” to “pay” for the alleged acts.
I think this is totally, utterly wrong a direction to even begin the conversation from.
The ripple effects of abuse are huge and wide-ranging. They very often go well beyond the perpetrator and their victims. So, from my perspective, there’s a lot of focus on the currently-virtual idea of the perpetrator who is falsely accused, as if that is somehow a greater cause for concern than the vast number of victims and others who suffer in silence, or worse, are disbelieved and punshed for speaking out on the issue of abuse.
I’d ask anyone who is putting the first case before the second 1) why a falsely-accused abuser is of greater concern than a disbelived or retaliated-upon victim, and 2) why the justice system plays such an important role in their thinking. Because to me personally. something desperately needs to be done about the way victims are treated in the media, the courts, and the world of social media far more urgently than the virtual-falsely-accused perpetrator everyone seems so extremely concerned about instead.
30 Likes
That is one white, sleepy floof. Thanks!
12 Likes
You’re very welcome. 
12 Likes
I took away, from what coverage I have read on the topic, that he was judged by his peers and the public based on the accusations of several victims.
He was then punished by his peers and the public by losing his job and career.
I called this mob justice. I’m more than willing to adopt an alternative name for it when compared to what is proposed in the sixth amendment of the constitution.
Fair enough. I entered the conversation with an unwelcome and off topic digression.
It is deeply concerning that the victims felt it would be pointless to raise accusations until years later and highlights the continued problem. The fact that the president himself is documented misogynist and seems to be celebrated in some circles for it is bloody depressing, and even mass media seems to revel in it.
Video game content has gotten better, I see fewer objectified female characters in AAA games, particularly outside of the even more misogynistic Japanese industry, but there is still a massive amount of systemic misogyny within both the gaming and tech industry as a whole, and I can still walk into almost any upscale night club in D.C. and find a politician or lobbyist with an escort hanging off his arm. Rot all the way up.
And that’s just harsh too. I’m not at all sold that that would work unilaterally, but I have no problem with attempting it. Vengeance begets vengeance and the circle of retributive violence is a clear pattern in history. The worldwide historical prevalence of punitive justice is hardly indicative of a narrow or unpopular view.
I don’t believe restorative justice would work with Charles Manson or David Duke, but it it could very well work with the man slaughtering drunk driver or 17 year old quarterback rapist.
I’m not sure why anyone with a brain, regardless of sex or genealogy would be against trying it as long as the victim is willing. Though I could see some GOP or oligarch serving Dem arguing that it’s not feasible due to cost or some other technicality that boils down to “don’t buck the status quo” conservatism.
1 Like
Oh, well that there is your problem. Nobody is guaranteed “a fair trial” in anything outside of the the court system. Women have been losing jobs, internships, relationships, and even their lives for daring to name their rapists since the beginning of time.
26 Likes
