That’s what concerns me. I would’ve kept the 3rd degree charge but then apply accessory to the officers because that would’ve led to one of them cracking for sure. There’s no way any one of them would want to sink with that turd even if it was just a few years in prison because prison life is gonna be hard for them with their faces on TV.
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I’m not a lawyer but have been affected by a case like this. These all vary from state to state, and manslaughter can have more nuance and be voluntary or involuntary in some cases.
But depending on how Minnesota works, the jury may have the option of convicting on a lesser charge. The case I was involved in was tried as 1st degree and the defendant was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
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As I understand it (IANAL, but I did sit in the jury on a murder trial where the concepts were explained to us), premeditation can be as simple as deciding “I’m going to run that yellow light” before doing it.
I cannot believe that someone kneeling on a person’s neck and chest for any period of time, let alone for 8 minutes, isn’t done deliberately to cause harm and death. With every second that passed, the officer had the opportunity to stop, yet chose to continue, even while hearing the victim’s pleas that he couldn’t breathe. That choice is the premeditation. This, in my view, is absolutely and unequivocably first-degree murder, full stop.
Though I can, I suppose, see where the prosecutors might want to err on the side of getting the conviction on something, even if it’s not what the crime fully merits. Juries don’t always interpret the letter of the law in the same way lawyers do. The lesser charges
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It looks like it’s an additional charge and not a replacement, does anyone else have a better understanding to confirm? So they’ve got 2nd, 3rd, and manslaughter.
Seems like the best course because my understanding is that 2nd degree can be a lot harder to convict because you have to talk to the mindset of the cop… 3rd would be more along the lines that he was trained to not do it, so it was reckless.
EDIT: Yeah if you look at the doc itself, it lists all 3 charges. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6935793-Chauvin-Amended-Criminal-Complaint.html
So this increases the possible sentence from 10-25 years to 10-40 years.
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This, exactly. Charging him with 1st virtually guarantees an acquittal. Because if they can’t prove he planned it, he walks.
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I don’t think it was premeditated in advance, but it was most definitely murder, as most of us here agree.
I’m good with a second degree charge, but what I really want is a CONVICTION and fitting sentence.
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Note that the revised complaint charges 2nd Degree Murder, 3rd Degree Murder, AND 2nd Degree Manslaughter.
The jury can convict on any or all of those charges.
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That’s why I am glad that they didn’t go with something that sounds good, but in real terms is essentially guaranteed to let him walk free, once things have “calmed down”.
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They upped it to second degree murder because the killing occured while Chauvin was committing a felony, specifically that of assaulting Floyd by kneeling on him for nine minutes.
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They absolutely could have charged 1st degree alongside 2nd and 3rd degree. They don’t have to charge him with just one, and they’re not.
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Sorry, but your understanding is incorrect:
MN Statute:
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
Chauvin is charged with 2nd AND 3rd Degree Murder, as well as 2nd Degree Manslaughter. It’s all there in the complaint.
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This is a minimal concession that is motivated not by justice, but by a desire to dilute the outrage and restore the status quo.
It’s a trap.
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Dude…
stop.
You push too much and you’re gonna overshadow your own message no matter how well intended your motives are.
Don’t piss off your allies who actually have to live with this shit, and have been fighting in whatever ways we can - that’s counterproductive…
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Perhaps. But you are not a lawyer, as you say. IANAL either, but to a lawyer, what matters is what Minnesota’s statute says.:
609.185 MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.
You can read it for yourself.
(Also, please note that, IMHO, your rather novel theory of “premeditation” is unlikely to hold up in court.)
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What a lovely man.
(Most applicable versions of Murder 2)
Killing a human intentionally, but without premeditation (not thinking about or preparing for before)
Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony other than criminal sexual conduct (rape or sexual assault which would be first-degree murder) or a drive-by shooting
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota-law/minnesota-second-degree-murder.html
There is a good deal of ambiguity and interpretation between Murder 2 and Murder 3.
Personally I think it is closer to Murder 3 and there may be a danger of prosecutorial overreach
Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes
I would have no problem if he plead down to that.
Like I said before, you can’t unintentionally kill a man by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes while he’s crying that he can’t breathe. That’s definitionally causing the intentional death of another human, premeditated or not.
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There is a subtle legal difference between an act of purposefully killing a person and a purposeful act which results in killing. But its one that is easily open to creative arguments by both prosecutors and defense counsel. This can really depend on the skill of the lawyer in question.
Makes this situation counter to conventional thinking is that most states make “depraved indifference homicide” Murder 2, Minnesota makes it Murder 3. I have a very easy time considering the act one of depraved indifference, especially given Floyd’s pleas. Chauvin just didn’t care that life was slipping from Floyd.
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I think you’re right; Klobuchar is snowballed in hell at this point (though Granpa Joe does seem to swing pretty wildly, so who knows?). However, Kamala Harris carries a lot of the same baggage and it will definitely be weaponized against her.
Stacy Abrams or GTFO. Not only do you get a strong history of racial justice and equity, you get perhaps the country’s best current voter suppression warrior.
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Chauvin was arrested and charged before any significant violence broke out. I would suggest that the scale and focus of the protests had more to do with it than the violence.
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