You may call it a violation of women’s rights when we publicly stone or flog them for committing adultery because they conflict with your democratic principles. [But] I represent Allah, and you represent Satan.
Change name of god in question, add “My name is Donald Trump and I approved this message.”
It’s the same god. Islam is an Abrahamic religion… The word Allah just means god. 
Heaven forbid someone correct a pernicious talking point that the DJT crowd believes! And you say they’re an academic, too? Awful…we should definitely fly off the handle at them.
I’m not Muslim, but a Muslim told me they do not worship the Christian God. They believe Allah is a higher power, the ultimate Law unto which even the Christian God is subject.
Well that’s simply wrong, as other Muslims I have talked to would tell you. They are monotheists and don’t believe in some separate Christian God. They recognize his prophets like Abraham and Moses as theirs (with Jesus treated as one too). What is more, Arabic Christians call their deity Allah – so it’s no different than how Spanish Christians worship the mysterious foreign deity Dios.
Well, they didn’t know what they’re talking about. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all explicitly have the same God, even if the three religions are separate ones.
I may have misunderstood him, or misrepresented him here. It was one conversation many years ago. Maybe he was misinformed, or our brief conversation didn’t get through all the theological nuances of his position. I don’t want to speculate further on what someone might have said in response to any objections, but he was pretty clear that he believed Christians are not worshiping his Allah.
I believe that what your friend was saying may have been based on his understanding of the following. There has been and is debate within Islam as to whether Christians are People of the Book or should be lumped in with Pagans, as some interpretations equate the Trinity with polytheism.
It is the same God of Abraham, but whether Muslims and Christians actually believe that they both worship the same god is complicated on both sides.
The question is: do they (by which I mean both Muslims and Christians) know and believe that? I am not in the business of telling anyone what they believe.
Right, and neither do all Muslims. I certainly don’t think that all Christians believe in the same god, so I cannot possibly believe that all Christians and all Muslims worship the same god.
Considering that a hell of a lot of folks seem to functionally worship only themselves, I think that’s a fair statement.
I’m fairly certain that most of them know their own religion better than you do, in fact. Again, don’t let the weird edge cases be the way you understand the religions.
Neither do Jews, are you going to say that THEY are not of an Abrahamic religion?
No, not really, it’s just patently false. The whole idea that Muslims are not worshipping the same god as the god of Abraham is pretty much an Islamophobic one. It’s historically and factually incorrect.
I think that intepretation of scripture is one thing, but the roots all go back to the same place. I mean, I WILL die on this hill, in fact. Because it’s the factually correct hill.
Like I said, I am not in the business of telling people what they believe. I avoid statements like “All Christians believe this” because I know from experience that it does not hold true.
Are you saying that a Muslim who does not believe that they worship the same god as Christians is not a true Scotsman?
I’m saying that FACTUALLY, the religion comes from a longer history of the Abrahamic faiths. That’s a fact that exists outside of people’s beliefs. The Quran has many of the same stories as the Torah/Christian bible (though often changed somewhat), and historically, the vast majority of Muslims have recognized that connection (hence, the whole “people of the book” belief).
It’s literally right in the Shahada, that they worship “the one true god” and that one true god was the god of Abraham…
The vast majority of people pushing the whole “Muslims don’t worship the same god as Christians and Jews” are Islamophobic assholes and if some Muslims have grabbed onto that, I’m guessing it’s probably reactionary to over a century and a half of Western colonialism.
Facts exist in the world. This is a fact.
My response is more based on the difference between the historical facts around a religion, the official teachings and beliefs of that religion, and what any individual’s actions and beliefs reflect. I freely admit to being pretty damned ignorant of Muslim beliefs in detail, but watching folks who loudly proclaim their own Christianity while violating every precept taught by the founder of that religion was why I have concluded that, for a large number of humans, they only worship themselves and what they think will bring them gain. This rarely reflects the actual history or teachings of their religion.
Yes, yes it is. I am talking about people’s beliefs, not facts. They are two very different things.
I think that what people actually believe has little to do with scripture or theology or history.
And frankly, I think that it is just as dangerous to pretend that religions are monolithic in their beliefs as it is to stereotype them based on their heterodox beliefs.
ETA: @docosc I had a great religious studies professor who was wont to quip, “The jury is still out on whether any two people actually believe in the same god.”
People can pick their own religious beliefs, but does that mean we need to accept them about others? I have heard some Protestants accuse Catholics of being polytheist – does that mean they don’t worship the same god, or are they simply ignorant of Catholicism?
I would say the latter, and I don’t see why it’s any different when someone says their God/Dios/Allah of Abraham can’t possibly the same as someone else’s God/Dios/Allah of Abraham, especially if they are depending on the language difference to make the case. Beliefs aside they’re all still equivalent words.
I would say, “I cannot possibly make that call, and even if I could, it would not have any impact on what they actually believe.”
This is exactly what I am trying to say here.
No, not at all. I personally believe that the god of Christianity and the god of Islam are the same god. I am merely pointing out that not all Christians or Muslims would agree about that, and my own opinion cannot possibly outweight that of a believer - but what then if two believers have two different beliefs? My point is that I am not really in a position to tell either one that they are wrong. And ultimately, nobody is.
Facts are facts. It’s a fact that it’s an Abrahamic religion. I’m not talking about people’s interpretation, and of course @IAmAlsoJohn was using ONE person’s subjective claims to argue that the whole religion is not Abrahamic. It’s really bullshit.
Good thing I did not argue that then… the historical facts of the religion are not the same as individual beliefs. are you saying that we should accept the MAGA interpretation of Christianity, and then assume ALL christians believe that Trump is some new messiah? that’s just as bullshit.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE. Facts are facts.
Why does it always have to be ALL or none? Why can’t it be some? It is in fact some. It is always some.
Also, did you read my post? Because I literally spent the whole post explaining that it does not matter what I personally believe, so there is no reason to go all caps on me.
Do you personally believe that there are Muslims alive today who believe that their god is not the same god as the Christian god or vice versa? Facts are facts, and pretending that extremist beliefs simply do not exist is not helpful. These beliefs do exist. I am not trying to validate them by pointing out that they exist. The existence is a fact. Period.
Awesome. So in short, because we don’t to risk disrespecting anyone’s considered theological beliefs, we can’t correct xenophobic propaganda saying “those foreigners don’t even worship the same God, they worship (exact translation of the word God here)”. Because we want to be tolerant of beliefs, we just have to accept lies born of intolerance. 
Facts are facts. Allah is the Arabic word for God, used by both Christians and Muslims, who are clearly referring to the same historical tradition complete with most of the same prophets. If someone claims otherwise they are wrong, regardless of their opinions on the divine itself.
