Mankind has been messing with horse genetics for a hundred centuries. And now someone wants to put their foot down?
Huh, and here I thought that anal wouldnât work if the goal is reproduction.
The dynamic would be a lot different for the thoroughbreds
Have cloners found a way around the problem with the telomeres? I never saw anything about that.
that scares me, not just for horses but in generalâŚitâs why patenting genes worries me.
âthe problem with telomeresâ you have to be a LOT more specific.
telomeres are good, useful things that make up for the fact that the cell is really bad at making copies. some cells can make copies without losing there telomeres, we call those âcancerâ (they also refuse to kill themselves when the other cells ask them to, greedy bastards)
but i donât know what problem you are talking about, far as i know there is no problem relating to telomeres and cloning.
Off the top of my head, it was something about the telomeres unavoidably fraying a bit with each mitosis as SOP, meaning that in a sense, your brand-new cloned embryo is made up of say, six year old cells⌠making clones of clones of clones would be a bit like dubbing cassettes.
As I understood it, youâd basically have to solve aging before you can have a properly young clone, no?
But but cloning doesnât work!
In theory it would be possible to start tweaking the muscle, bone, heart structure to improve performance. Some of these traits are fairly well defined due to the many generations of pedigree data and inbreeding. But itâs a niche market, so it would take an eccentric billionaire to fund that sort of work on horses.
Only a matter of time before the first EU panic about cloned horse meat contaminating the food supply.
Selective quoting to prove your radical agenda is frowned upon.
Your âdefinitiveâ quote is followed by âunless of course,â which shows that the rule itself acknowledges exceptions.
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there has been no conclusive correlation between telomere length and cloning. in some clones they are shorter than normal, in others they longer.
if making copies of copies of copies was bad we would ALL be fucked, because we are all copies of copies of copies of copies (this goes on for a while) of copies. while we mix up our genes a bit, a good number of species reproduce exclusively through cloning.
the biggest issue with cloning is that it reduces genetic variability and makes the species more susceptible to disease
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It seems a little background information is required.
The reason a few people would like to register cloned horses is to remove a mistake they made. This started with a well known barrel racing horse named âScamperâ. Scamper was a gelding and could not reproduce. Scamperâs clone was an attempt to recoup the loss of revenue that was brought about by snipping off a part of Scamper. It was the only way get his balls back.
To date, there has not been a clone that has equaled the performance of the original. Scamperâs clone failed miserably. Seems that life experience had a great deal more to do with Scamperâs success than pure genetics.
As an AQHA member and a breeder, I am opposed to registering clones. It is a tough decision to make on whether or not to geld a colt. The benefits are improved performance due to a better behaved horse that doesnât have women on his mind. Stallions will also hold back if vigorous activity cause pain to their package whacking between their legs. It is a trade off decision. You kill future breeding but if the stallion does not perform well, there is not much of a market for him.
The issue with registering clones is simply a way to have your cake and eat it too. All colts will be gelded for training and performance and those that do well will be cloned for breeding. Sounds good but gives an unfair advantage over the not so wealthy folks like myself. I still have to do it the old fashioned way and make a decision on whether to geld or not while the money folks get the best for their bucks. I wonât be able to compete.
Out of curiosity, is there any reason why potential breeders havenât already started to use cryopreserved sperm and artificial insemination to get around this problem? The technique is considerably older than cloning, and considerably cheaper, and would seem to allow you to achieve many of the same benefits (sample first, freeze, thaw samples from promising performers, toss the rest) with less fuss.
The industry does use frozen semen. Most often it is used in proven horses so that a particular stallion will be having offspring years after his death. There are some that will collect a prospective colt before gelding but it is not generally cost effective. If the horse does not perform well, the effort and cost is wasted. Again, it benefits the money folks which in turn creates a monopoly.
To be clear, I donât fear cloning or even frozen semen long term. Using cloning and frozen semen(for a longer duration breeding program) stalls the advancement of the breed. You donât get improved traits if you narrow the gene pool by breeding to clones or old stallions.
I do fear the short term damage to the industry as new people interested in an equine sport will be shut out and unable to compete when/if there is a surge of horses, all closely related, at the top of the performance curve. There is no room for new people to get involved. This is already an issue in the racing industry. As top tier owners/breeders corner the market on genetically superior horses, they only have themselves to race against.
But to your point, yes frozen semen does offer the ability to deal with gelding. That just goes to my point that those wanting clones are trying to fix a decision they made and lost on.
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Interesting, I found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scamper_(horse)
But canât find much on the failure of the Scamper clones to live up to the legacy. Any other good links?
Just Charmayneâs web site.
http://www.charmaynejames11.com/clayton
If Iâm marketing a stallion, I donât mention anything not flattering. The fact that the horse has not accomplished anything worth mention speaks volumes. A clone of a ten time world champion would have been tried.
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Fascinating. But you also said
So whatâs the difference here with the champion barrel racing horse? Is flat-out horse racing simpler to genetically select characteristics for, versus the complexity of barrel racing?
The short answer is yes. A stupid horse can still run in a straight line.
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I suspect this same logic will work for humans as well. For less complex sports and events, genetics will eventually win, and consistently. We already know at the olympic level, small differences in performance can be profound.
In quarter horses, there are three performance breeds within the breed. Race bred, show bred, and cow bred. To get a Supreme Champion, a horse must get points in all three. Supreme Champions are rare.
Cloning would be detrimental to to achieve Supreme Champion IMO.
