House Republicans now allow smoking inside Capitol, causing quite a stink

It’s an incredibly heavy lift. But people do it. Those people are heroes to me.

One of the reasons I subscribe to the SPLC’s Intelligence Report is so that I can learn more about the methods of people who have successfully converted bigots, and about the methods of people who are creating bigots.

… but should the goal really be to “convert” bigots, or to defeat them?

Their terrible ideas don’t matter if they’re not in a position to impose them on other people

and they really have no right to hold the world hostage until they choose to change their minds

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Normal people want to defeat them, and that’s what the bigots are weaponizing. Cults have done this since forever - exposing recruits to the justified dislike of normal people is part of the programming process that creates new fanatics.

Remember if you want to win democracy, you need to convert a majority of voters to your point of view, so they vote like you want them to vote, of their own free will. If only one side is converting people, which side will win?

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You mean their parents? Because I promise you that 99.9% of bigotry is learned on their parent’s knees.

Can you define that term, because it’s apparently not bigots, but nor is it liberals or progressives. :woman_shrugging:

Cary Elwes Disney Plus GIF by Disney+

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I’m using “normal” to mean “the usual, average, or typical state or condition.”

Normal people are not kind to people they dislike and disagree with. It takes a very abnormal person to change the world, though.

Which is? What? Straight, white, male, middle class? Be specific. I’m aware of the dictionary definition of the actual word but that doesn’t tell me what you ACTUALLY mean by “normal person”… Who is left in or out of that matters enormously in this conversation, because it’s an assumption of WHO we shape our society for.

There was a time when that was ONLY white, middle class and wealthy, cisgendered, straight Christian men. By that definition, the typical Trump voters is “normal” while I am not, while others here are not.

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I mean specifically the dictionary definition. It’s not necessary to reinterpret the word in any fashion.

In context, I’m referring to the kind of people who aggressively display their dislike of others when it is socially acceptable to do so.

That does not tell me who you believe is the “usual, average, or typical” human being is. That’s not obvious, given the actual variety of human beings who reside on this rock…

Why would you believe that’s “normal”? If so, what makes that “normal” behavior among human beings? We are social animals, and as such, we are shaped by our society and/or social circles. We don’t come out of the womb behaving in particular ways (a few things aside).

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Is blaming liberals for bigotry an effective way to change the world?

Have you successfully “fixed” a single liberal, anywhere in the world, so that he or she is now fighting bigotry properly, the way you think it should be done?

Perhaps this attribution of responsibility is not as helpful as you seem to think it is

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This is an interesting digression. I believe that’s normal because it’s what the majority of people I have encountered in my long life have normally done. As you implied, what is normal is whatever society decides is normal, and that changes.

I was quite surprised to learn that many children have to be taught to nurse, including one of mine. As you’ve noted, we really have very little inborn programming, and what we do have varies between individuals.

Here’s what I wrote on the subject two years ago:

It’s so terribly frustrating to still be hearing the same thing today. I guess the one difference is that here we’re not getting “blamed”, just sad head shakes that we can’t do what has been deemed “better”, yay for that. But of course people are still insistent on anything that means we ought to be nicer to racists, no matter how often that fails and no matter how many people are hurt by them in the mean time.

I will note that the main activities the SPLC does are things like calling out fascists and asking people to deplatform them, not trying to hit the exact secret combination that is supposed to win them over.

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But they also don’t actively seek to harm those people. Otherwise, no one could leave their BMW parked on the street and not have it destroyed. I feel like that’s where your point of view skews from my experience in the world. I can let other people be, not try to harm them, but not go out of my way to be kind to them.

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As I said before, I don’t assign blame to people acting in a way that I consider completely normal. In my opinion wanting to punch Nazis is normal, and shows spirit. And I don’t expect anyone to be above average.

But consider the example of Darryl Davis or - if you have time for a long read - consider the conversion of Derek Black.

These are examples of ostensibly “normal” people doing a very unusual thing - by converting hatred to love, they are at least twice as effective as anyone merely opposing hate.

… maybe if we put some of those Confederate statues back up :roll_eyes:

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I don’t see where either of these people’s activism consists of denouncing liberals for doing it wrong

Perhaps you should just go find a racist to hug, instead of complaining that other people aren’t hugging racists for you :confused:

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Morally, I consider this well above average, and far beyond reproach. In my experience a startling number of people take delight in the suffering of their ideological opponents, and will advocate harming them. From my point of view, you’re being a generous person, and kinder than most.

That’s kind of you to say. Thank you.
I don’t think I’m above average, though, and I’m sorry you have people around you who make it seem so.
I also think, whether you mean to or not, your argument comes across like a “both sides” thing. This one, anyway. It’s not fair to compare people who are opposed to those who want some of us to not exist and don’t extend the olive branch to those people, to people who just want us all dead or demoralized who don’t extend their own olive branches.

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If I went to a National Socialist meeting to try and make friends I doubt I would live long enough to shake hands.

How many have you gone to?

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It’s always fun seeing people described as having a difference in ideology, without recognizing the significance of said ideology being “want you / your friends to die”. Like all the handwringing about liberals and MAGAists being divided that somehow left out the bit about children getting taken from their parents and thrown into concentration camps.

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