Well, that’s a start right? Sorry. Not sure who you are referring to. Maybe we can bring this around to a constructive conversation.
Maybe it’s a mis-read or a mis-characterization – but most of us are mis-reading and mis-characterization what you wrote.
That’s feedback. You can ignore it, dig in your heels and insist that everybody but you is wrong – that’s your artistic integrity! Go for it!
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That’s true. Thank you. I hereby amend my question to clarify that the determination of whether additional thread controls have value and that the choice of whether to use them or not should stay with the intended beneficiary.
It really depends on the scenario, right? If there’s the guy who gets a couple of beers in him at a party and gets all grandiose about his tales of the good ol days, that’s really different than the guy who talks out his ass over the 75% females that make up his 20th Century Continental Literature class. (Oh, that guy. Seriously, nobody wants to hear your blathering about the Dionysian and Apollonian elements in Camus. Again. Just shut it.)
Part of the equation is whether the environment supports this type of thing and who has the authority. Not that you can always appeal to authority, but a bad example at the top almost always leads to a shitty situation.
So, for me, I’ve been lurking in this thread because I’m a career changer. I’ve been in IT my whole adult life and I’m currently studying to teach HS English, and I want to do my best to support the right kind of discussion in class. I’ve seen really good and really bad examples in my courses, but I’m always looking for other techniques.
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Just want to say; this is what happens in all topics considered “female” - and this is the nice version, this is the smart version, this is the version where the men actually like and respect women, this is the version that happens when the women actually asked for male input. This is the rare version.
Imagine what happens outside the friendly embrace of BBS? Imagine how reluctant we are to bring up anything of any importance to any group of men who maybe don’t like or respect women? When this is what happens with men we like and trust and respect?
So if ladies are quiet around you, and never tell you about the back ground noise harassment that is their daily lives, maybe you should ask yourself why none of your lady friends feel comfortable telling you about it? Because its happening, daily, you just don’t “see” it, and they aren’t telling you about it. Ask yourself why. Or maybe just read this thread…
@ChickieD - my advice, find the ladies at work and go to lunch together and talk to them. Start there.
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Responding to the original post, I have a practical suggestion, which is to check out The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense system developed by Suzette Haden Elgin, if you aren’t already familiar with it. (I mentioned it recently in another thread.)
She was a linguist and a professor. I think she did amazing, useful work with this, and I wish more people knew about it.
She explains how to identify and respond to harmful patterns in verbal interactions, when speakers are using the English language. (Note that she defines “verbal abuse” not as yelling and swearing—she likens that to physical abuse, like using words as fists—but rather the negative language patterns that break down communication and cause untold stress.)
There are a number of titles by her on the subject. Success with the Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense is geared toward professional interactions, and the examples given are of workplace situations. From the blurb on amazon: “This book, the fourth in the famous “Gentle Art” series, continues and extends the revolutionary system of language behavior. It focuses specifically on the communications skills required of executives and professionals.”
Anyone who uses the English language to communicate with other human beings would benefit from learning about her techniques and putting them into practice.
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I like this thread. I don’t mind the bitter qualities at time. I want us to bash our heads, and I like that we are all friends and know it. Why not fight about what is in our heads secretly that we don’t fight about openly?
Let’s get meta with this thread and take a look at what is happening here and figure out how can we turn this into a productive conversation instead of people feeling disrespected.
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Read up where we actually did that and no one really wanted to fight the power except me. There’s one lady I stay in touch with on the issue.
And it was so sad that my one co-worker thought leaving her newborn baby at home to come in to work for a meeting was “Leaning In.” No thanks. That is NOT progress in my book.
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Any married men who recognize that the problem in your marriage is that your wife doesn’t get to do enough of the talking, please check in here.
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Gotdamn that fucking book man, that book is freaking evil.
I’m sorry. There is a lot of “don’t rock the boat” attitudes at work. Especially with bad bosses people work so hard to not be the next target.
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Which is something that we all do and it doesn’t make you misogynistic or anything like that. It happens reguarly in my life and sometimes it happens here. I can talk all I want, but if people don’t actually pay attention, it’s just shouting into the void. Again. Imagine how frustrating that must be for someone who makes ideas and discourses their work?
That’s a big difference between post and not being heard. But I’ll admit to getting frustrated and angry, and hearing you. However, I felt you were pushing the leaving job option more than others and I wasn’t the only one who felt that. So I apologize for that, if I ignored the rest of your suggestions.
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose? If it’s just a PM, it’s no longer a public discussion. We DO want others to contribute here. Trust me, we PM this shit quite a bit. We’d like to have a public discussion on this stuff that’s actually constructive, because we like it here and do want to be considered equal members.
Yep.
This sounds like a great idea? @awjt, you down for that?
Lean in just comes off to me as corporate feminism, not much else. It has no interest in changing systems, but in having women particpate more in the systems that already exist.
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Dammit Mindy, that P stands for PRIVATE! Don’t tell them about PM club! 
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It’s supposed to be ironic, not some refusal to back down. I’m not planning to reply any more.
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It was ironic, and funny. Please don’t go, I value your voice here!
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Private? I thought it stood for PERIOD!!! Menstruation, doncha know!!!
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A VERY interesting look at Lean-In and its total bullshit spin on “feminism.” (air quotes because I hate the book).
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In terms of differences in experience, I think Master of None nails this in the opening skit in Ladies and Gentlemen, when men and women walk home at night:
http://fusion.net/video/229604/aziz-ansari-master-of-none-walking-home-women/
I think most women already filter pretty heavily when searching for jobs. If your place is a bastion of equality, it may be because it’s:
- Very tiny
- You don’t see it happening. Folks are having problems, but they haven’t confided to you.
- A Unicorn.
I want some ways to stop a man from his mansplain when you actually like the guy and want to preserve his dignity and your relationship with him. I want ways to get a man in charge to open up to the people who aren’t in charge.
You may find more helpful things searching for “managing up”. This sounds like an insecure boss. Generally they’re a pain to deal with and it takes a lot of effort to communicate with, work around them, or bulldoze them to get stuff done.
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Is it misandry to mention periods?
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not just my boss…
That video was so true to an actual experience I used to have walking home from the subway it’s creeping me out. I had this one guy who would walk with his (female) friend and they would both harangue me to go out on a date with him. I was like, “Uh, I don’t go out with random people walking outside the subway station.” It was day after day.
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