How to combat manspreading on the subway - sit on the offender

[doop]

@kwhitefoot

The problem is that not everyone feels self confident enough to ask someone to move when the person has clearly deliberately occupied more space than necessary.

I think this is totally true. When the train stops and the doors open and people are getting on I huddle up and make it clear that the adjacent seat is available. Once everyone is settled and the train is moving and it’s clear that nobody else wants the space, I’m going to encroach with abandon. But I do agree that it’s kind of rude to wait to be asked; timid people deserve a seat too. And if you’re sitting next to the last free seat in the car and it hasn’t occurred to you that somebody else might want it then you’re already being a bit of a dick, whether anyone wants the space or not.

Threads like this remind me to be considerate when I am sharing space in public, so if people want to have a moan about antisocial manspreading practises then I’m fully on board,

@anon61833566hunter

It “looks” sloppy and disheveled.

…it’s just this part that I don’t really know what to do with. Usually when people are being scolded for their appearance in public it’s a woman whose skirt is too short or a guy whose skirt is too skirt. In my experience it is definitely one of the advantages of being a tall (and cis) guy that people tend to keep such opinions to themselves, but personally I’m of the opinion that nobody should have to put up with that sort of superficial judgement from anyone.

Would it be an acceptable compromise for you if you just didn’t look at me? Why did you put “looks” in quotes like that?

@anon61833566hunter

I’m sorry for your oh so difficult first world problems of being tall.

I’m not asking for sympathy, just empathy. @TheGreatParis got a lot of likes for saying he didn’t understand why anyone would do it and that it’s pure ostentatious selfishness, so it seemed worth pointing out that there are practical considerations. When I’m standing at a table for a long time, I stand with my feet maybe a metre and a half apart so that I can do what I’m doing without bending my back. I look like an asshole and people laugh but I do it for the same reason that I stretch out when I’m sitting.

For me my dick has nothing to do with it, I think all it comes down to is that sitting with your knees above your hips requires effort. Those little muscles in near the groin, the ones that like to detach if you put them under strain for an hour and then try to do sports, they are constantly working to keep your legs balanced. Especially on a wobbly train. There are temporary workarounds like folding your legs or wedging yourself into a kind of side-saddle position, but only spread or legs extended (which is hardly better for others) are comfortable for any length of time.

I wish you didn’t find that offensive.

@danimagoo

I had no idea that manspreading apologists were a thing until I read this thread.

I’m not apologising for all manspreaders, but I will say that I’m comfortable with my position.

@gatto

women worry about their safety, men worry about their comfort. and it’s only ever men who think the two issues are the same.

Woah. Abandon thread, I’m out. You are right, they are not remotely related issues.

[Mungrul]

Or people in London who stand on the left on escalators, or stop at the end of one, then get irritated when I walk into them.

[GyroMagician]

@anon61833566hunter

I hate people who sit this way with a passion.

Which way, manspearding or on the legs of strangers?

[L0ki]

@AndreStmaur

Of course, I have not used every public transport system in Europe, so it is possible that the problem exists in some cities.

It does. Certainly happens in London.

[anon67018654]

@gatto

by which women block the use of adjacent seats on public transport.

safety first. if you can’t be polite enough to ask a person, in a non threatening way, to move their bag - you probably aren’t safe enough to sit there.

Nice theory. Yet I see these women all of the time when I use public transport while travelling with my 5 year old (and when he was way younger), when he or I on his behalf clearly needed a safe place because buses are especially jerky. I also see them when there are seniors around, also clearly less secure on their feet than a bag of groceries.

[falcon]

@gatto

i think it’s so funny. women worry about their safety, men worry about their comfort. and it’s only ever men who think the two issues are the same.

Worrying hard about the risks that persons with disabilities in the priority seating might present to her safety.

“…it’s only ever” literally anything, if you are prepared to ignore all the counterfactual evidence to your paradigm.

[anon61833566]

So much this right here.

[mcv]

I totally agree. Leg room is very valuable to me, and when it’s there, I use it. But when other people need that space, I make space.

The problem isn’t people who take up extra space, the problem is people who continue to take up extra space when there are other people who need it.

[mcv]

@AndreStmaur

I wonder whether this is mostly a US problem. As a regular user of public transport in Europe, I have rarely seen this “manspreading” behavior and, when people like to use an empty seat next to someone, that person accommodates without even being asked (taking a bag left on that seat, for example, as I have seen this morning).

I have absolutely seen it in Europe, but you’re right that most people make space when someone else needs the extra seat. Not everybody, though. It has happened a few times that someone next to me kept their legs half in front of my seat despite the fact that I was already sitting there.

[jpc2769]

Even in Marseille they are more considerate than in the US…

[scottbp]

How long are you riding the subway for? Also how smooth is the ride? My commute on the tube in London can be anything from 25-55 minutes. I like having a seat for that long. Also with all the stops, starts, shakes and shudders I really like having a seat.

[MaiqTheLiar]

OK, since when does discomfort = unbearable pain?

[AndreStmaur]

@mcv

@AndreStmaur

I wonder whether this is mostly a US problem. As a regular user of public transport in Europe, I have rarely seen this “manspreading” behavior and, when people like to use an empty seat next to someone, that person accommodates without even being asked (taking a bag left on that seat, for example, as I have seen this morning).

I have absolutely seen it in Europe, but you’re right that most people make space when someone else needs the extra seat. Not everybody, though. It has happened a few times that someone next to me kept their legs half in front of my seat despite the fact that I was already sitting there.

Well, yes. You will find obnoxious and inconsiderate people all over the planet, for sure. The real question is, however, if they are a rare exception or if they are so frequent that it makes sense to talk about their inconsiderate behavior on boingboing. Really: is “manspreading” (and not move your legs when someone needs the space) that frequent in the USA? I really wonder.

[mcv]

@AndreStmaur

The real question is, however, if they are a rare exception or if they are so frequent that it makes sense to talk about their inconsiderate behavior on boingboing. Really: is “manspreading” (and not move your legs when someone needs the space) that frequent in the USA? I really wonder.

It seems common enough that many people have encountered it. I’ve at least once, possibly more often (I don’t keep track), sat next to someone who kept manspreading after I sat next to them. It’s antisocial behaviour in a place that is already uncomfortably crowded. It’s worth reminding people not to do it, and clearly people care enough to exchange advice on how to deal with jerks who won’t move.

[SqualusAcanthias]

I sit this way too, as it is a natural relaxed position. If other people are present or enter the vehicle (really once we enter a station), however, I put my legs together until they either sit down or walk past me. It is easy to be considerate if you are aware of your surroundings, but very few people seem to be, no matter the gender. The easy rule of letting people exit the door before pushing inside, for example, is rarely observed by anyone.

The term “manspreading” is ridiculous i.m.o. and serves only to fuel the fire of an artificial gender fight when the real issue is just inconsiderate assholes, but it probably makes for better blog headlines.

[aml]

Yes, knees absolutely together is uncomfortable for most, but you don’t have to go that far to at least show you are trying. Since thighs usually taper from hip to knee, knees together is a negative angle for the thighs. But its not a binary thing, If the edge of ones knees are as wide apart as your hips, they aren’t taking up any more room than their seat. As they start widening out from there, they start taking up more room from others.

How rude it seems also seems to involve some subtle body language implying intent. Someone with knees apart but look like they are trying to keep them no further apart than they are looks a lot more appropriate than someone who looks like they are trying to own the physical space around them. (knees that seem to pull in an inch or so and then fall back into place looks like they are trying to push them out further.

Yes, the worst offenders are just being rude. If they can extend their knee well into the area of the next seat, no one will sit in that seat. Then you get that luxurious personal space. (I met someone who said they love to drive in NYC because it was the only way to guarantee she could be at least three feet away from any other human being.

[mcv]

@anon61833566hunter

I’m sorry for your oh so difficult first world problems of being tall. You can reach things on high shelves. I can’t. I fit in smaller spaces better than you. First world god damn problems.
So yeah. It is unacceptable that you cannot sit like a civilized human being.

I find this post disgustingly ablist and insensitive to people people who don’t fit society’s average. Being unusually tall or short comes with very real problems. Many people may have a variety of subtle or serious physical disabilities that are invisible to you, but may require them to do something you don’t like. Expecting everybody to be just like you is completely unreasonable.

Is it also unacceptable when someone without legs can’t “sit like a civilized human being”? Someone who’s spastic, perhaps? Being tall is fortunately not as bad as those, but tall people are more likely to have back problems, and they definitely have a shortage of leg room in a world designed for shorter people. A bit of consideration for your fellow human beings would suit you. That, in fact, would be the mark of a civilized human being.

[Israel_B]

@doop

one of the disadvantages is that maybe 90% of everything that gets made is too small.

Is venture to guess that people are both taller and bigger than when subway seats were designed as well.

@readyphasers

Are women not capable of taking more than their fair share of space?

Here in Japan the problem is more often women setting their purses/backpacks/shopping bags on the seats next to them.

@manybellsdown

Men take up more space because society teaches them they’re entitled to it.

And because they’re larger than women on average? Seats in public transit come in one size: small.

@SqualusAcanthias

The term “manspreading” is ridiculous i.m.o. and serves only to fuel the fire of an artificial gender fight when the real issue is just inconsiderate assholes, but it probably makes for better blog headlines

Only took 139 comments but I’m glad you said it.

[manybellsdown]

@Israel_B

And because they’re larger than women on average? Seats in public transit come in one size: small.

I like how you ignored the part of my post where the much larger woman didn’t encroach on my space. If it’s a body size thing she should have been bumping into me as much or more than the man.

And speaking of “average sizes”

@knoxblox

Women’s crotches get just as swampy, but consider this – I’m guessing you don’t wear a bra. That’s likely not so fun either.

Breasts are generally much larger than balls. I wonder if there’s a way I can take up extra space for mah tiddies? I mean, if we’re speaking of discomfort, I can point to several women I know with permanent scars on their shoulders from bra straps. Sorry dudes’ balls feel a bit cramped when they sit down and all but bras are like an all-day-no-relief thing for a lot of women. And there’s the underboob sweat to deal with.

[mcv]

He started by explaining that he always made space when new people entered. You still said: “It is unacceptable that you cannot sit like a civilized human being.”

You are claiming he is uncivilized or subhuman because he has physical problems he’s struggling with, and you reduce his struggles to being better at reaching high places, as if that makes up for the problems.

Yes, the real world can be harsh. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to contribute to making it harsh.