Korea was the win we didn’t realize was at the time. South Korea was rescued from oblivion, as the original mission intended. It remains in existence and has become an economic powerhouse in the region. The South Koreans consider it a victory. I am happy with that.
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“Leader of the most powerful nation in the nominally free world whose office also happens to have a remarkably consistent record in dragging the rest of the nominally free world into conflicts they should have no interest in?”
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I used to do extemporaneous debate in high school. There were these debaters who would get up there and like magic, parrot the most superficial but highest attention-getting sound bites from everyone else. No original ideas/ nothing of substance. All appearance. And they’d win. Trump is just like these annoying people. A great big stuffed suit with little hands sticking out.
The USA has titrated into its politics the most skillful silver-tongued talkers for the last 250+ years. No substance, all talk. Why? Because we haven’t rewarded the truth. We reward image, largesse, arrogance, “winning”, basically everything evil or ignorant. I sound like those stupid CHUDS, but in a long term sense, we do reap what we sow. It breaks my heart.
The day Trump is out of office cannot come soon enough.
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The moon landing is an amazing technical achievement, but does it cancel out the cultural rot that was being caused daily by Vietnam? It’s not impossible for momentary greatness to manifest in the presence of ongoing decline.
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Wow. Present Tense. USA and moral leadership. I guess it’s meant ironic.
I think I already mentioned it’s a self declared propaganda title?
That’s a definition I agree with.
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No, it’s meant to be sad as hell. We are in a unique position to offer economic, military, and moral leadership other liberal democracies. How we choose to use that position of leadership is up to us, and no reasonable person would argue that we’ve failed far too often. But that doesn’t make our position any less real.
That’s fair even if I don’t agree wholly with the underlying point. What point would you choose as our peak?
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You and I fight. I punch you, you fall down. I win. Nevermind that we destroyed some tables and chairs and put a few holes in the wall in the process and everybody’s looking at me like I’m an asshole. Didn’t you hear me? I won!
That’s America.
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FTFY.
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All those involved that weren’t Drumpf: “Damn, that actually worked. We coulda been doing this all along!”
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Economic and military perhaps.
The US never had a position as “moral leader” (whatever that is). That’s simply the US national narrative/myth: manifest destiny, shining city on the hill etc. Everyone can offer “moral leadership”.
Quote from the article:
This was the only time a president had used the phrase “manifest destiny” in his annual address. Wilson’s version of manifest destiny was a rejection of expansionism and an endorsement (in principle) of self-determination, emphasizing that the United States had a mission to be a world leader for the cause of democracy. This U.S. vision of itself as the leader of the “Free World” would grow stronger in the 20th century after World War II, although rarely would it be described as “manifest destiny”, as Wilson had done.
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Reminds me of the HISHE Villain pub.
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Throw in male, too. Seriously. And probably could somehow work in 65+, too, because the oldest folks in politics have this magical way of totally ignoring all previous generations. OLD WHITE DUDES ARE the problem.
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I would… except for the disturbingly high percentage of White women who voted for the current occupant of the oval office, and all the ones who keep calling the police on Black folks, for even daring to breathe in the same air that they do…
They are all complicit in systemic White supremacy as well, and they don’t get a pass,
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Of course not. No one who voted for that monster gets a pass: white, black, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, neither, young, old, usually votes D, usually votes R, independent, straight, gay or otherwise. I was doing Root Cause Analysis, which I do believe to be old white dudes.
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Well, yeah, everyone can offer moral leadership. Bhutan can offer it just as Uganda can just as Columbia can. But I think it’s more than a bit silly to ignore the fact that one country in particular is in a very unique position to offer that leadership due to its incredibly vast economic and military power that goes along with it.
Please don’t misunderstand me, though: “moral leadership” most definitely doesn’t mean that we are necessarily influencing other nations for the better. Our moral leadership has led to all kinds of ill-conceived if not downright evil actions being taken and accepted in the world. Again, we can argue about the choices we’ve made with our position as “leader of the free world,” but that doesn’t mean it’s not a real concept.
That’s one of the biggest long-term consequences of Trump, I think. The rest of the world, particularly liberal democracies, are proceeding under the belief that the US can no longer be counted on to provide the kind of leadership (again, for good or ill) that it did in the last century.
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As an empire, probably from our entry into WWII in 1942 through the end of the Marshall Plan in 1951. I think that was the time we were most unified as a nation and most looked at by the rest of the world to lead.
The top of the peak would be April 30 - August 6, 1945. I think between Hitler’s suicide and the needless atomic bombing of Japan was probably the moment we could claim a relatively pure peak. Once those bombs were dropped, we weren’t nearly as clean.
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FTFY, I’m sad to say.
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I’d argue that there were a few hundred thousand charred corpses in Dresden, Hamburg, and Tokyo who might disagree with that framing, but we’re probably getting too far afield and that’s a whole other kettle of worms. In any event, I think your choice of '51 is pretty defensible and I understand your point.
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If you’re selling snake oil, and people believe in your snake oil, aren’t you in a position to sell it to them? Good or bad, fake or not. Other nations bought that shit (not everyone and not for all times of course).
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And don’t forget to count the Alt-Right assholes, most of whom are not old but quite young. I remember when I was teaching college about 6 years ago and I’d try to discuss race in the U.S.–I can’t count how many 18-year-olds at the time said some version of “I don’t think racism is really a thing with our generation.” As if Millennials had just suddenly solved The Issue that’s plagued this country since Jamestown.
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