just look at it.
(i think i have those goggles…)
2 Likes
Don’t make me dredge up the porn gender stats again!
It really is like being a prisoner. We can’t not look, we can’t not want… pretty much all the time. It kinda sucks ass to be honest with you.
3 Likes
Sorry for OT:
If you can dig a bit of biology, read “Evolution in four dimensions” by Jablonka and Lamb. Awesome stuff. Really blew my mind.
2 Likes
Dude, read the topic, read OP, ask yourself if this post belongs here and then sort yourself out.
3 Likes
Shrug. Data is data. I’m afraid of men, too.
2 Likes
2 Likes
We can’t not watch. We can’t not want. We can’t not harass. We can’t not be assholes. We are in no way responsible for any of our own behaviours because all men are mindless babies with no ability to control ourselves at all. The only way to get men to stop being horrible is to humanely euthanise all of us.
-
I didn’t have internet access for a month recently. I didn’t die. The whole line of reasoning is built on a ill-conceived false premise. That men tend to do something in large numbers in no way implies that we lack agency.
-
Defences of men’s poor behaviour is actually really demeaning to men. Are we really going to argue we have no self-control? Because if there’s something that biologically makes us intolerable, I mean, the only solution for that is modification or removal. Things get really dystopian really fast.
-
Data is data, but context matters. Bringing up your weak-ass conclusions here - where you argue that men are helpless, malevolent automatons - is the opposite of supporting victims of harassment and violence. You are not only not part of the solution, you argue that you have no choice but be part of the problem. Because we’re all testosterone zombies. Unless you’re actually in the midst of puberty, you have no excuse to be arguing this way. Sort yourself out or at least try making ‘I’ statements.
6 Likes
I didn’t see anyone here say that shit.
EDIT: Except you.
3 Likes
He was writing specifically about porn. Not dunking kittens in vats of acid or flaying virgins with straight razors. Porn. Context is extremely important when you’re quoting someone on the internet to try to take down their arguments.
And here it is, in your own words:
1 Like
Whoa whoa whoa there. I am sorry if what I posted was interpreted as a defense or as a statement that “men just can’t help themselves”! I am sorry, it is not intended to be.
If you look at the post I was replying to, I was explaining why it is semi-ok for a group of middle aged women to gawk at a teenage boy a bit, whereas if a group of middle aged men gawk at a teenage girl, it is far weirder and deeply uncomfortable. First of all the whole punching up vs down thing, and second, women are generally less interested in gawking / looking, so it is more rare, and less likely to be acted on even with an offhand remark. The porn stats support that.
Men kinda have to look… doesn’t mean they should act on it, but the data is there. Do women ever catcall men? I mean, I am sure it happens, but it has to be super rare.
I agree with the rest of your comment, but you fuck up when you go this far with it. The stats aren’t that lopsided because so many men can’t help but do what they do. There’s a big difference between wanting to do something and not being able to stop oneself from doing it.
What a lot of men in this thread still aren’t getting is that yes, we do still live in a patriarchy. That’s a certain kind of social order that empowers men and disempowers women. And so (this seems so obvious to me), while some women have catcalled, generally, any who might want to usually feel less encouraged and safe from consequences to do so. Anyway, the general sexualizing gaze in mainstream hetero society is a male one of women – women absorb that too, so they’re less likely in the first place to objectify men, and so less likely to catcall. And/or, less likely to want to catcall.
8 Likes
Emphatically yes. We absolutely do live in a man’s world. A white man’s world. There is no point in saying any of the #notallmen arguments to try to level the debate. They are moot. The point is and always has been: if we want actual, corporeal equality in our lifetimes, then rationally what can we do?
5 Likes
Please stop asking that question. You know what to do. It’s so tiring hearing that question all the time. 
4 Likes
It was rhetorical.
3 Likes
Without derailing, can I just express a quick I Love You All for a second?
…
Okay, I’ll stop now before it gets weird (I love you all!!)
8 Likes
Me three. Klinker Brick zinfandel, right now, for full disclosure.
3 Likes
Ok I’m late but I’m here. Vodka Dr. Peppers for me tonight.
And you Boingers are the best, even when I’m sober. (I even use the L-word about you lot now and then.)
4 Likes
Yes of course, my only point was that women simply want to [sexually objectify] less; the porn study quantifies this with 70% of men engaging in voluntary porn consumption per week versus women at 18%. That is a factor of 4x difference between genders.
Even if we lived in a matriarchy, women would objectify far less. The effects of testosterone, estrogen, and millions of years of evolution – plus all the scientific data we have on the matter – guarantees that.
1 Like
Hold up, hold up!
Skepticism time: how can you state anything regarding what must or must not happen because of hormones without doing proper testing of multiple natural backgrounds? Your data is all from one planet, heavily infused with patriarchy all over. Even if you had some minor society with matriarchy, how do you account for other confounding factors (e.g. economic, class, trade, etc)?
Realize the limits of what knowledge we can surely obtain and let this one go. Confounding factors can be hell on trying to tease out any kind of complex or delicate effect. Sure, testosterone and estrogen both have plenty of clear, obvious effects, but trying to pin down all differences in rubbernecking and staring on their effects is a whole 'nother ball game.
3 Likes
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
