But I think we’re constantly told that’s the solution… so, where does that leave us. Don’t want to get raped? Don’t go a party. Don’t want to be harrassed IRL? Don’t “dress sexy”. Don’t want to be harrassed online? Hid your gender or don’t go to places where you’re “not wanted”… etc.
It’s very discouraging.
(Well intentioned but unconstructive post has been nuked from orbit)
Ask men to stop asking women to supply solutions for men’s problems?
You win 
Well, I don’t know if my way is right or not, but I will pummel men who I catch hurting or abusing women. And I know there are others like me. So BE YOURSELF & hang around “us” whatever that means. I also know quite a few women who are small but incredibly tough and better fighters than I am, so hang around them, too.
Serious again, I stand by my list of observations that men can do right now to decrease harassment. But I am not actually that smart, so I ask for help. That’s all I was getting at.
Yep. This exactly. I just stay out of the conversation all together, most of the time.
Men’s problems? Now that’s new. Because it’s (some) men’s fault, does not make it men’s problems. Actually, since most men causing these problems don’t see them as a problems they are very unlikely to provide any solutions.
You do realize thats all of them right? Thats everywhere. Its ALL the things.
There is no “safe space”. Not even BoingBoing. Hell, men force their way into “Mommy & Me” FB groups because how dare women talk about having babies or breast feeding without a Dad present! So unless women never watch TV or movies, read any books, magazines, or any media, and never talk to anyone ever, and never leave the cave, there is NO space that is “safe” for us.
I know you mean well, but please don’t tell us to police ourselves even more than we already do, instead, please try to call out the other people that make these spaces “unsafe”. Cuz we already limit and restrict ourselves so much…
So maybe you can point it out to them, since they won’t take women seriously on this issue. Perhaps they’ll listen to another man on the topic.
And yes, misogyny and misogynistic behavior is on men.
There is only one phrase:
I can be better to, and today I will be better.
Is it constructive to extend the topic at hand (active harassment performed by men) with passive activities (watching TV/reading a book while bemoaning the quality)?
(This is meant as honest question, I cannot fully comprehend your situation (after all I’m male, caucasian and European; I can only try to understand), but it feels as if the whole package is too large to solve/discuss/follow in one go)
Try empathy:
As in every place is just as bad as every other place? I can’t vouch for your experience, but I have found some places to be absolutely atrocious, and other places more-or-less acceptable, such as here. Occasional dbags are everywhere of course, like going to a nice restaurant and Biff and Buffy are having a tiff over the caviar… or stinky George walks in off the street and starts bothering people. I mean there is no escape and I’m not talking about escape. But there are definitely places more welcoming and easier to be yourself than other places, right?
Oh, also re the intent of the comments. They can be taken two ways. Way 1. Men telling you how to police yourself, thus absolving other men of responsibility for changing their ways or 2. Trying to help… which in no way implies any absolution or excuse for pigs. So, take everything I’ve written here in this entire thread as #2, pew pew pew poo poo.
My inclusion of media was to say that our entire culture is sexist. So even if I avoid “groups & social media” that are abusive/harassing/etc the underpinnings of those specific activities are still there.
Even if I never speak to another person ever again in my entire life… I haven’t done anything to solve the issues of sexism and harassment of women, the groundwork for those things are in everything, in our media, in our culture.
@awjt so we should just avoid online places that are problematic? So… thats Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Flickr, Reddit, every newspaper in existence… again, I know you mean well, but telling me not to go online where men harass women is impossible, because those places don’t exist. I even left BoingBoing for over year as a direct result of one user [who is banned now]. I don’t have the answer, but telling women to police their online behaviours isn’t it.
No fair, you edited while I was replying! As to your “#2” - I’m sorry, but “trying to help” isn’t actually helpful in this instance. It comes across as patronizing and somewhat victim blaming. I just want to tweet freely dammit, but I can’t, because assholes, so telling me to “just don’t tweet” isn’t helpful.
Thanks a lot, the topic is very interesting - though this specific book will not work for me. I tried to read the sample chapter but the writing style is incompatible to me. I cannot point a finger on the problem, sometimes my text/brain interface is broken (other examples are Knuth, Rowling and Scalzi).
What’s funny and terrifying, is that internet anti-feminism has been a gateway into reactionary politics for a lot of young white men. One of the lasting things from GamerGate I noticed is the uptick in the number of open neo-Nazis you find in gaming spaces. It’s emboldened those who were already there and recruited new young people.
You could probably find something more your speed, of course. My general point was that empathy, creating a sense of empathy, and exercising that muscle can be helpful in better understanding others experiences. No, you can’t be a woman in this world, but you can certainly listen and learn. Popular culture and literature for example, are great for that…
NooooooooooooooW, which translates to nooooooo followed by owwwwwwwch
I’m not saying don’t tweet & just stay in your room.
!!!
I’m saying other stuff & trying to have a conversation. I hate the pigs. I promise right now to call them out every single time I hear them abusing you or other women, and to teach my children to treat people with respect.
I know you’re trying to say other stuff, I get that. This topic is hard, its hard in person and its harder in text. Thank you for listening, and for trying to have a conversation, above all, that is very much appreciated. 
