I’m saying if you’re going to cut out a secondary character (understandable for time, even if I do not find the many characters problematic), you’re not forced to keep their rape intact and pass it onto another. Is rape itself a nameless character?
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Another take, from Bina Shah:
http://binashahblog.com/2015/05/21/on-the-game-of-thrones-rape-scene/
They didn’t cut the character out. They merged two characters, as the show has repeatedly done throughout its run for a number of reasons (mostly for ease of a viewing, as opposed to reading, audience following the plot and reducing some of GRRM’s overwhelming complexity). GRRM has even spoken in favor of them doing so from time to time. What happened with the other character, now merged into Sansa, has other plot significance, such as Theon’s overall arc, and those things have now happened to Sansa instead (and they toned it down).
Sorry you didn’t care for it but there were, you know, actually reasons for doing it beyond the fetid desire of the showrunners to rape Sansa onscreen.
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No one said it was okay, but it was in the source material. The rape of Sansa wasn’t.
I don’t know if it’s a character, but rape is an act of war. so there is that.
It was, just happened to a different character who isn’t in the TV show any more. That’s hardly relevant anyway, most of this season wasn’t in the source material.
But it didn’t happen to Sansa is my point, Jeyne Poole actually got worse in the books. In the books it’s far more apparent that this is the redemption of Theon. I think we’re going to see a joint event with Sansa and Theon after this, I’d guess.
Really? It’s largely based on book 5. I’m not watching it now as I don’t have HBO, but much of what I’ve been seeing in recaps are somewhat edited version of the book. It seems like they’ve collapsed Tyrion’s journey somewhat, but from what I’ve seen, the major stuff with Arya and Dany are there, the political intrigue at the wall and at King’s Landing (the marriage hadn’t happened yet in the book). Apparently, GRRM has said book 6 will be out early next year, so even that might get ahead of next season and it won’t be a spoiler season. But we’ll see.
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That’s not stopping probably a hundred million people…
Meh… I’ll just wait for the dvds… worked out thus far.
Why is it relevant whether it happened to her or not though? They’ve been given obvious leeway to change things around, people can argue whether a change is justified or not, but using adherence to the source material as an argument for anything has gone out the window unless you’re willing to say the same about everything else they’ve done. They’ve removed whole swathes of characters and repurposed various characters to do different stuff, even the stuff that happened in both is generally happening quite differently here. It looks like there’ll be more changes in the remaining episodes as well (by the wall), but hard to tell for sure. I’m not a fan of a lot of the changes they’ve made, though I understand some changes are required due to time and use of actors and other logistical concerns.
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Sure, fair enough, it’s two different mediums. Some found the scene just more brutality for its own sake, once again, at the expense of women. The question seems to be where Sansa’s story goes from here.
All the bad shit that happens on the show happens at the expense of the characters, male or female. This clearly wasn’t just brutality for its own sake though, they’d have shown more of the act itself rather than a closeup of Theon otherwise. The previous rape scene was more deserving of criticism I think, it didn’t seem to accomplish anything plot wise.
But I think that this is where the argument about deviation from the source material might come in, especially in regards to the treatment of women. Are you being true to the source, even if the events aren’t the same? Back to the broader issue, the show seems to play up nudity of women and violence against women in ways that aren’t necessarily as connected to the plot. I think it can be argued (as several people in this thread have) that this is not an example of a rape scene that does nothing for the narrative (like the Cersei/Jaime scene).
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Sorry, you’re confusing me now, do you think the Sansa scene is problematic or not?
So very much has been done to Theon, why was this necessary in order for him to snap and escape?
I read the books, but I don’t recall it being the rape of Jeyne that forced him out of Reek, it being incidental to the what the fuck, “let’s go with this” escape plans. I just tire quickly of characters being visible torture soaks (sort of like Tara on True Blood).
Yes, Westeros is a cruel place. Yes, I was pretty much okay with the books with some exceptions not yet depicted in the show.
Admittedly, part of the problem here may simply be imagination, it’s a lot easier to reconcile actions and fantasy context with literature without lush visuals and careful editing intended to affect and repulse you.
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Sorry… I don’t meant to be.
I’m leaning towards the problematic, but I think that might depend on what happens with her arc after this. If it’s just used to redeem Theon, then it’s more problematic. They could redeem the scene itself by helping to move Sansa’s story along…
It makes more sense for it to have an effect on Theon if it was Sana than it would had it been Jeyne. In the books the nature of the torture he experienced was so much more obvious than in the show so far - it was explored in far greater depth, this incident may have seemed necessary to the writers for that reason, but I’m only speculating. I don’t see it as problematic even if it was solely to progress Theon’s character, it wasn’t gratuitous - it didn’t focus even on the act itself, but rather the horror the act created in Theon. If you have a problem with any depictions of rape, I could understand why this would be troublesome, if you had problems with decapitations and gelding the same should be said, but I certainly don’t see any bias in the show here, it’s just pretty awful in general.
I do see rape to drive the plot along as problematic, but in a different context I would also be annoyed if the plot used gelding and decapitations in lieu of more creative solutions for moving the plot along and tying together points and characters.
Even if not “problematic” (which appears a caricature of a number of different feelings on a particular narrative), it at best comes off as lazy to me.
I wonder if the show will resolve the whole Winterfell issue this season. Given how they have streamlined it, I think there is a real chance. That could allow Sansa to be instrumental in the downfall of the Boltons, immediately positioning her as the Stark who gets shit done.
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Oooo… I’d like that, actually. I wonder.
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