There’s a lot of talk about fascists here (and everywhere nowadays - for very good reasons). Did anyone else notice, though, that the reportedly Russian interference campaign Facebook pages that were recently identified (some incorrectly, as reported by BB) included a whole bunch of “Trumpists are fascists” material? It’s really got me wondering just WTF we’re supposed to do now. It’s obvious that in their attempts to undermine American Democracy, they very much want the electorate to be deeply divided and distrustful of “the other side”. Me calling the Trump administration a bunch of godamn fascists is exactly what they want me to do, which makes me want to not do it (I ain’t no Kremlin stooge, yo!). On the other hand, the actions of the administration are definitely scary for those of us who don’t like to imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever (thanks, Orwell!). One approach is to simply discuss each individual action on its own merits (“I humbly suggest that calling mainstream media outlets ‘Fake News’ does little to further the interests of the American people” or “I suggest that calling fellow human beings ‘animals’ strips them of their humanity and is bad, umkay?”), but the scariest part about these stories is not the individual breaking of norms or erosion of principles of freedom - it’s the totality. And in total, they point pretty damn strongly towards fascism. How do we talk about that without furthering the divide between us and our fellow citizens without playing right into Russia’s plans?
With no reference to her physical appearance sarah h sanders is a deeply ugly person whose soulless willingness to lie for him casts her as an enemy to the united states. She is a very fluid liar whose connection to the truth is only coincidental to the agenda she supports. Vile person.
“That sounds eerily similars to the relationship between Aunts and Commanders, as tolds in that docu-drama I watched on the Hulus.”
-Squirrely Dan
I think we have to just accept that Russia has already succeeded in the “let’s divide America!” plan. We can worry about putting the country back together after we get the fascist out of office, but I don’t see a way forward if we aren’t allowed to call a spade a spade.
ari fleischer had that same ability.
not long after my oldest son got married, my wife and i took them out to dinner at the best italian restaurant in town. they had tvs located around the place and one of them was tuned to cnn on which fleischer was spewing out the most ludicrous answers to questions. when i made a fuss to a waiter about muting the volume so i wouldn’t have to listen to “w’s paid professional liar” and continued raising a fuss about it in a manner both genteel and strident they finally muted it.
up to that point my new daughter-in-law, a young black woman had not been sure what to think about or expect out of me, a white man approaching middle age. after that she felt comfortable regarding me as a potential friend.
Off topic, but I frigging hate TVs in restaurants. I don’t think ‘best restaurant’ and ‘tv’ should ever inhabit the same grammatical space, unless ‘best’ is being used in the sense of ‘least worst’.
The thing is that all through Obama’s time in office, the Alex Jones types called him a fascist, apparently redefining “fascist” to mean “someone with whom I have a political disagreement”. Now, the term has been completely watered down, so that when I say, “Trump is a fascist” and mean, “Trump is a fascist”, many people think I only mean, “I do not agree with Trump”.
The point is, I’m not sure calling him a fascist is even all that instructive to the intended audience (i.e., people who support Trump because they think he aligns with their own political positions). I’ve seen plenty of reference-heavy articles and videos explaining exactly how it is that Trump is like a fascist, but they are completely unpersuasive to those who support the guy. It’s all dismissed as “Fake News” and politically motivated gamesmanship, instead of an earnest attempt to point out the dangerous course we’re on.
It’s not that we aren’t allowed to call a spade a spade, it’s that doing so changes nobody’s mind while ratcheting up the animosity.
I think a big part of the problem is that the fascism arguments I’ve seen are all pretty esoteric. They really only require a basic understanding of history and political theory to follow, but that basic understanding is missing from, I’m going to say, most of the president’s followers.
I’ve got a friend on Facebook that’s a big Trump supporter. His arguments consist entirely of memes and poorly spelled rants about Killary and democRats. The guy’s a dumbass, to put it bluntly. He also considers himself to be a patriot. He’s a veteran. There’s a lot of wrapping in flags. I used the word “facetious” in a comment. He asked if I meant “facious” (which the astute will note is not a word). Then he said, “Oops fascist”. It so beautifully encapsulates the entire problem. He doesn’t want to be a fascist. He hates fascism (in name, since he knows that’s what Nazis were, and he knows good Americans hate Nazis). Yet here he is, being a fucking fascist. “Oops fascist” is just so perfect, like his feeble brain finally catches on that he’s on the wrong side… So the question, then, is how do we get all these folks to actually come to an “Oops fascist” moment? To have them finally realize that all they purport to love about this country is threatened by this oaf in the White House and his cronies?
I don’t believe anything I could say will ever persuade a committed Trump supporter at this point. I’m not tailoring my language for their benefit.
Luckily people who support Trump are solidly outnumbered by people who don’t. We need to focus on getting THOSE people out to the polls and out in the streets.
I’d like to further say:
If somebody is OK with upholding a system that oppresses women and people of colour, I have no interest in living near them. There can be no amicable peace between us and them, for the price of peace is us in chains. Those who preach #solidarity with bigots are asking us to be complicit in our own oppression.
No, no, and NO. A thousand times no. I will not share a dinner table with a bigot, nor a neighbourhood. Do not ask me to change their hearts; in the amount of time required to enlighten one of them, more of pur brothers and sisters are killed by them. The shortest way to achieving justice, then, is not with trifling words nor with an olive branch. They have no interest doing the moral right, only in preserving and enhancing their status.
The direct route is key: we must speak boldly and seize the means of power. Social justice NOW.
She can’t tell that lie and keep her job.
Insofar as you are able to acknowledge that The Huckster is a “person,” I can definitely see why she would consider the press an enemy of the people.
Was going to say the same thing, it’s a pet peeve of mine. If I want tv with my dinner, I’ll stay home and watch something I’m interested in. Neither MMA or Pro Wrestling (both of which were playing at the restaurant my wife and I went to last night) enhance my appetite.
Forcing me to watch local news or Team Trump will put me off food altogether, but my bar bill will increase exponentially.
we were already divided.slavery, segregation, jim crow, the southern strategy, the new jim crow existed long before modern russia.
all they did is help amp it up. help make the racist minority keep power despite losing more of their backing at home year after year.
they didn’t start the fire. just provided some extra fuel.
So you don’t want to “change their hearts”, you want to “speak boldly and seize the means of power” using “the direct route”.
How do you plan to seize the means of power without changing their hearts? If you can’t gain enough voters to do so via the levers of democracy, then the only remaining option is by force of arms. Civil war. Is that what you mean? You might make the argument that such a war will, in the long run, save the lives of those that would be killed by the policies of this administration. Perhaps the math would even work out favourably. In the long-enough run.
But war is a terrible thing. And if that really is what you want, then I find your ideology almost as frightening as theirs.
Rhetoric needs one more “if” and one more “you might” for maximum impact. However, very skilled use of italics and sentence fragments.
A-
That’s a really dangerous way to think, and as @Kevin_Slattery nicely pointed out above, it plays right into Putin’s hands. I spend half my time living in San Francisco where literally everyone I know hates Trump (as do I), and half my time in the country where almost everyone I know supports Trump. And their reasons for supporting him have nothing to do with him being a bigot, and they hate the guy for it just as we do, but they have other prioritities that they rank higher. The big one is wanting less government regulation. Since they live in the country they have vastly different requirements of the government than people in the city. Given their priorities they’d have been crazy to vote for a Democrat.
I’m really worried about the over the top divisiveness in America right now, and I think the most radical thing we can do at the moment is simply be friends and civil with people who think differently. Because neither side of this feud understands the other, and is far too willing to write off the other, in my experience.
There are enough voters. Millions more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump, and that was when a significant number of people were sitting the election out or voting third party in protest.
Trumpists are dangerous but they are also outnumbered. This isn’t a problem of winning a majority of Americans to our side, it’s a problem of getting those Americans to the voting booth (and making sure their votes are actually counted fairly).
