I think it’s entirely possible to be a progressive/liberal who is horrified by Trump’s dangerous classification of the press as “the enemy of the people” and also think that Jim Acosta comes off as a showboating douche when he pulls stunts like this in press briefings.
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I want to believe he’s sincere (although if he is, they need to pull him off of the press conference and rallies until he can pull himself together professionally. The questions are fine, the meltdowns after are not ), but I thinks CNN knows Trump’s days are numbered and is already editing the footage for the doc about the Trump presidency.
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When they send us to concentration camps, we can stay there with the knowledge that not all of them believe it’s right?
Cool. If they start then I’m happy to reciprocate. I am not about to put my life in danger again for some half-baked plan of “lets all be friends”. I still have PTSD from the last time I attempted to be civil with fascism.
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No one is asking anyone to “be civil with fascism”. Most people who voted for trump arent fascists by a long shot. They just don’t want to be told that they can’t build a shed on their property because of some goofy building code, or they want the right to own guns or whatever. That’s the sort of reasons they have, and despite what echo chambers like this one tell you, those reasons have absolutely nothing to do with supporting fascism. In my personal, non internet based experience, anyway.
Another way to look at it: they voted for the republican party, not for trump specifically. They support trump insofar as they want the best for the country, but they neither support fascism nor do they believe that trump is a fascist. I disagree with them on that last point of course, but that still doesn’t make them fascists.
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As I’ve said before, I’m very willing to write off America’s Know-Nothing 27% who are interested in neither civility (at least not as a 2-way street) nor friendliness toward those they discover have different political views or skin colours or sexual orientations, etc. That comes from a place of understanding why they might be dissatified with how neoliberal capitalism has left them behind, but asking for less government regulation on business makes no sense as a “solution” and blaming the situation on undocumented immigrants “takin’ their jerbs” makes less sense. Huckabee-Sanders comes from a family that’s successfully exploited their ignorance and bigotry.
The fact- and reality-challenged Know-Nothing mindset isn’t a recent phenomenon of course – it’s been in place on the American right since at least 1968. And yet the DNC establishment, apparently trying to provide a textbook example of insanity, keeps trying to woo them.
The 27% doesn’t make up the total of Il Douche’s supporters, of course, but make no mistake: much of the other 19%-20% of those who voted for him were also driven by racism in the form of anxiety over thwarted entitlement. They understand as well as we do that, with every passing day, simply being white (and often also male and cisgender and Christian) isn’t enough to keep one from joining the rest of the “undeserving” poor and that not being white, etc. no longer provides as much a bar to success as it once did. These mostly middle-class credentialed temporarily embarassed millionaires aren’t using racist epithets or marching with tiki torches but they’re irrational in their own way.
When it comes to improving the political landscape (including Putin’s attempts to sow division via social media) there are better and more effective ways for liberals and progressives to expend their time and resources than to try to reach out to anyone who thought Dolt-45 was anything close to a sensible candidate for the presidency.
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This is very true. What I find amusing is that my progressive, liberal parents live in the heart of Trump country in an area where tons of people live in planned housing developments and condos, all with HOAs. Somehow these Trump voters see no issue with paying $100/month to an HOA that takes care of common areas, cleans pathways, plows roads in winter, has strict rules about what color your mailbox is allowed to be and decides whether you’re allowed to have a shed or not, but the mention of socialism, Obamacare, or government overreach makes them steaming mad.
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They are now. Good Germans. They have a chance to redeem themselves in November. They knew EXACTLY who trump was before the election. He told them explicitly.
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Dunno, I think I’d say her continual support for the Orange Autocrat’s facism makes her de facto fascist.
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Hmmm - did anyone listen to the arguments made and have a response to them?
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Lots of Republicans say anyone who supports Hillary de facto supports corruption. For example the way the DNC railroaded Bernie was pretty shameless.
I don’t agree with their logic and don’t think I support corruption any more than they think they support fascism.
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I don’t think the analogy holds up. Sanders is Trump’s Whitehouse spokesperson, who publicly and officially defends everything he does, no matter how mendacious or malicious. She is inside the Administration, and a key player. That’s far different than merely being an outside supporter of Hilary. Sanders directly enables Trump’s autocratic and fascistic tendencies.
At some point you have to call collaborators by the name of the things they are collaborating on. Sanders can’t lie all day to enable Trump and still be separate from the consequences of her voluntary, conscious and continuing actions. She’s not a defense lawyer after the fact, she’s actively participating in the Administration, enabling him every day.
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I think to be a fascist you have to want fascism. Being in favor of some of the policies (but not all) of a fascist isn’t enough. For example i can support a lot of the policies of Bernie without being a socialist.
Edited to add: Im not saying none of trumps supporters or minions are fascists. I certainly agree thay Sanders is a complete fascist. I’m only talking about run of the mill republican voters.
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Kurt Vonnegut played Rodney Dangerfield’s son? That’s sounds like a brave casting choice! 
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There’s a whole sub-category of historical and sociological scholarship of the 1930s and 40s that doesn’t see it as being anything close to that simple, especially when it comes to people who, like Huckabee-Sanders, are agents of a regime.
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Sorry about my edit above, happened as you were writing that. Agreed completely that Sanders for example is a fascist. I’m certainly not arguing that none of trumps supporters are, but merely voting for the guy and being supportive of some but not all of his policies doesn’t necessarily make someone one.
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Except for the people who are openly supporting things like concentration camps for children, white supremacy as a political platform, and open attacks on our democratic institutions.
They voted for Trump, they are still proud they did. When you ask any of those people about it, they immediately start bullshifting with “but but but Obama/Clinton…”
When one’s political views are that certain people should be attacked by the apparatus of government as a matter of course, there is no compromise or civility warranted.
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If some of the other policies involve things like harsh immigration policies that split up families and the guy said he was going to do just that during the campaign (Gessen’s Rule 1: Believe the Autocrat) and one votes for him despite the presence of the policy then one is complicit with the fascist regime.
“I voted for him because he promised to make the trains run on time [nb: he didn’t] and not for his promise to expel the Jew puppetmasters” is an excuse that doesn’t hold a lot of water.
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After a certain point, though, if they continue to support the fascism that now a central feature of the Trump GOP, they will be de facto fascists. Some people who supported Mussolini may have just wanted trains to work on time, but we still call them fascists now.
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“I’m not a fascist, I just vote that way!”
Look, I appreciate that not everyone who voted for Trump did so because they are racist misogynist authoritarian monsters. But whatever their justifications were, every single Trump voter decided that racism, misogyny and authoritarianism weren’t deal breakers. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
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At some point though a classification needs to work in practice. Take a few real world trump voters (not ones you met on TV or online), and try applying the label. I’m good friends with a lot of them and the categorization fails completely, on every level.
