There is no slave yolk. We can move to something inferior anytime we want ‘freedom’.
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Is that an old timey Southern delicacy?
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You internalized the oppression. You crave it now. You are beyond help.
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Halp! Someone wants to be treated different than me! They must be confused and oppressed.
You may think you’re happy in the cage. You may even be truly happy in there. But if you don’t have the key to the door, you’re a prisoner.
I don’t want to force you to go out, that’s about as bad as forcing you to stay in. I say you should have the key. And demand the key, regardless if you believe today that you won’t need it tomorrow. If you’re right, you won’t use it, no change for you, nothing lost. If you’re wrong, well…
I don’t understand why some people refuse to see this.
Halp! Someone is happy doing something that positively affects them and I need to stop them from being unfairly advantaged because it affects me in no way what so ever!
Well, it could be argued that we do have some kind of key in the form of Jailbreaking, to continue that metaphor. @wrybread seems to get quite a lot of use out of that.
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You are imposing limits to yourself, to everybody who will inherit your old phone after you upgrade, and you’re normalizing being locked up without a provided key.
You are imposing limits on reuse of the devices as e.g. touchscreen controllers, after they are decommissioned. Things can have other uses after their lifetime in their original application runs out. You are limiting others by accepting limits on this.
And you are agreeing with going after people who want to provide sideloading binaries. My proposals do not inconvenience you in any way, and open more options for you, so why the disagreement?
You did not provide any argument why distributing a signed app binary for sideloading is Something Wrong, just claimed that it shouldn’t be done because The Fruit says so. If it is about some Bad Guys, what’s the chance that true bad guys will obey such request?
It’s a reason why it is called jailbreaking.
The jailbreaks are possible because of security holes in the software. Assuming the situation will get better, security-wise, it will also get worse, freedom-wise where said freedom hinges on a jailbreak.
We should ask for keys to open our devices to us even if we can break them open now. Because it is not certain we could do that tomorrow with sufficient ease to provide enough of market for the associated “gray” app ecosystem.
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I bought a dog, but I’m upset because I really wanted a cat. You are imposing canine limits on me! How dare you sell me something that I did no research on and expect me to accept these limitations that are well known when there are cats being sold everywhere. Siamesies even. What kinda assjerk would sell me a dog without telling me I can’t upgrade it to a cat, you are oppressing everyone by owning the dog in the first place!!!
Your analogy is entirely missing the point. I am not sure if you don’t see it or just refuse to see it.
“I bought a car with engine compartment welded shut” would be a better one.
Think about it.
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Yeah. You bought a car with the engine compartment wielded shut. And I’m the idiot??? Then again, if there were no user serviceable parts, and to make the parts user serviceable would make the entire car far more unstable and larger, using more gas, and looking ugly so the 3 guys out of 100,000 that wanted to service it could brag…you are absolutely right. I stand behind your decision to buy that car with the engine compartment welded shut now, you have convinced me that given today’s technology this leads to a better user experience for far far far more people than the people that are sad because they can’t hang the engine from a tree in their front yard because this isn’t 1973 Appalachia any more.
So thank you for explaining why this is smarter. And thank you for making me think about more than the 3 others that want to tell a huge auto company that they are oppressing us for not selling us what we asked for when all their other customers are asking for something different. Especially when I want a truck and they all wanted sports cars.
Just when this thread was Going. So. Well.
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You did. I did not, but I see more and more such cars and I don’t want to live in a world with access to vital components shut off. You may be a happy corporate slave, internalizing your servitude as a virtue as your increasingly weak arguments and ill-fitting comparison show, but I am not.
Except the other choice is “stable” - whatever it means - only when driven on the vendor’s road and using the vendor’s fuel, which is ten times as expensive as generic fuel, and you can not even decide what brand of groceries you’ll put in the trunk, the vendor maintains the approved list.
The “ugly” is the cost of having a real dashboard, instead of “engine problem” light. The oversimplicity, the style-over-substance, is nauseating.
And most of real innovations came from garages, not from big corporations exercising tight control. You are giving up a lot of potential.
I prefer 'hoods with engines hanging from trees over the gentrified yuppie farms that tend to spread like cancers. And if you want something good to happen, if you want faster innovation cycle that’s not shackled to what a bunch of corporate boardmembers consider profitable and sufficiently non-risky to their beloved business models, you should too. There’s nothing wrong on an engine on a tree; you can even use it as a swing. And it’s the sight of freedom and of innovation.
You owe everything you got to the three of ten thousands. They are making the good stuff. The 99,997 are just blind consumers, making nothing and just taking the ride.
You’re so brainwashed by The Fruit that the soap can be smelled across the Atlantic.
Brainwashed by the fruit? I’ve been a programmer for 30+ years. I pretty much have championed these beliefs as they’ve been introduced and have asked for some of them before the fruit company decided it was the right way to do things.
I’ve always had both general purpose and specific purpose computing devices. So long as the general purpose is always available – and if present and past inform the future – these general purpose machines will always be the ugly dumptrucks they are, and will always be available at commodity pricing. I love the fact that I can go to Alibaba and pick up a few Android devices for about $10 each and use them as intended. What I don’t like is people complaining that my sportcar isn’t a dumptruck and that they are oppressed because of it.
But to each to their own. You have the right to be offended by something that shouldn’t even be in your orbit other than you choose to put your rocket there.
Jail breaking iOS is the best way to zero day your iPhone.
Lots of security people have spoken about this. It is generally just a bad idea. For better or worse, iPhones have much better security than Android devices unless you jailbreak your iPhone.
If I count my C64 years, I can clock about the same, give or take.
So you’re part of The Problem.
Me too. The specific purpose ones are nice, as long as they can be pushed into the general purpose mode; otherwise they get rather confining sooner or later.
Commodity pricing is good.
Except that for some reason you are refusing to see that your sportscar is essentially a dumptruck with welded-shut engine, perhaps so you wouldn’t realize its true nature, a different top on the essentially the same chassis you aren’t permitted to see, and enough marketing to make you believe that the many times higher price is worth it.
Sportscars may look pwetty but that’s just about it. A dump truck does a better job overall and makes less noise and looks less obnoxious for less money.
But if you insist on valuing style over substance, and paying the premium for being denied rights…
My first computer was a C64 as well. And yes, I’m part of the problem for 3% of the world. Luckily, those 3% have options that aren’t being taken away from them. You want to take away MY options and that isn’t cool. Why do you want to force horrible horrible freedom on me?
What option I want to take away from you? The option to NOT have a root key to your own device? How different it is from having that option and CHOOSING to not use it?
I don’t want ANYONE having the key except the manufacturer. If you have the root key to your device, you can get the key to mine. These keys get out anyways, I’d rather they weren’t just handed out to anyone and I’d rather have these patched so it can’t happen.
Then only those who can cheat, infiltrate, cajole, or pressure the manufacturer will have the key.
That’s a bit weird thing to say. I have the root password to my servers. Does it mean I have the root password to your servers? Please explain your statement in more detail.
Allow the user to become the root. Patch the exploits. Then both the security and flexibility/freedom are achieved.
Also, without having root access the user’s capabilities to do security audits are significantly diminished. In the age of NSA, of baseband processor exploits, and of cellular station spoofing capability available to everybody with a low-few-100s $ SDR board, this is a rather lousy thing to deny access to.
