Yeah, he received some pressure, but I never heard any serious suggestions that it wasn’t ultimately his decision to make, or that he didn’t have a clear legal right to make that decision. That puts it in an entirely different category than the events of January 6.
Withholding donations because you (rightly or wrongly) believe that a candidate can’t win is not illegal. And neither is telling Biden that you think he’ll lose if he stays in the race.
If you have any evidence that there were illegal maneuvers, violations of election law, or any other attempts to circumvent the law I’d like to hear it. Otherwise go ahead and kvetch about dirty politics all you want, but please stop comparing it to an actual attempt at a violent insurrection.
The articles I cited in an edit above paint a picture not of Biden dropping out because of some sort of epiphany about his chances but rather that he was discouraged about how many of his supposed allies were stabbing him in the back. His choice of dropping out was less of a capitulation that he was destined to lose and more of a “fuck you” to those fair-weather allies.
At the same time, he and Harris can both be credited for executing a very good transition, politically. And he’s made clear, both publicly and privately, that he believes Harris will make a great president and candidate. Solidifying her as the nominee is also a “fuck you” to his detractors, who wanted an open primary.
The only quibble I have is with your timeline. I think the center-right large donors Democrats started in before the debate by withholding a lot of their large donations to the Biden-Harris campaign. They’ve been upset with WH policies that favor workers and unionization. The debate performance just made them come out of the woodwork.
Truly how many of us for how many years have been dragged along with the the DNC hoping maybe this time they won’t throw us under the bus?
How much effort did it take for some of us to come around to trust Joe Biden or even to soften our stances on things we once held dear.
And then to deny the naked power grab within the democratic party and the reality that all of us must make sure this party understands where the true point of compromise is to prevent civil war.
This is just so much bigger than our fucking individual egos we all need to get over it fast.
Then you also do not believe I am in good faith either. I’m glad you admitted it. I am. This is just what it is like to have a strong difference of opinion with some one who does not trust you online. And yeah. I hate it too.
During this whole situation I have made four donations to the Democratic party. Two for Joe. Two for Kamala. I put what money I can spare towards things I believe in and I argue from the heart.
You don’t have to like me but for your own sake at least try to believe that much.
Haven’t read through the entire thread yet, so apologies if this has been said: she campaigned in 2020 in favor of Medicare for All, which in the U.S. is seen as cRaZy-EyEd Communism by a lot of people, even some Democrats. She was also for some very targeted student loan forgiveness at the time, and may be on board with the more expansive version Biden has been working hard for. She is also for making pay equity for women into law, and for a much higher tax rate for high income people than even Biden has proposed.
Couldn’t agree more. “Betrayal” suggests that Democrats and progressives owed personal loyalty to Biden. Nuts to that, this ain’t a cult of personality. The idea that the “elites” who purportedly convinced him weren’t primarily focused on doing what was necessary to defeat Trump, or that this kind of political pressure amounts to a “coup” is asinine (not least of which because we know what an actual coup attempt looks like, and this wasn’t it…)
It has been interesting, though, to observe some of loudest voices who were absolutely, positively sure there was no way this would happen, and anybody suggesting it might is a defeatist, and if it did it would lead to utter Democratic chaos and guarantee a Trump victory, shift so quickly and thoroughly to what they are absolutely, positively sure will happen now.
I, personally, am livid. I think he is doing a good job, is a master politician, and could, even would definitely win. The “Biden is old” narrative, among everything else, was just plain disgusting ageism from the politicians and party donors (and everyone else, but the Rs act in bad faith, and the media somehow doesn’t think they’ll be among the first sent to the camps).
I like Harris. I will support and vote for Harris. I think she will be an exceptional president as well. But what happened to Biden was straight up wrong, and I fully agree steps should be taken to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
First off, if you don’t like that wording, you can take it up with Biden. It was his wording.
Second, it has nothing to do with personal loyalty. Biden won the fucking primaries. Pushing him out went against the actual votes of actual Democratic voters.
Third, you can’t reasonably be calling for civility while also calling other contributors “asinine” and “cultists.”
I really doubt we can know that without being there in the rooms he occupied at the time. I also think that conception of him fails to acknowledge what seems to me like the strong possibilty that he instead strategized, in order to get the best candidate in to replace him, as well as the one most likely to carry on with his policies. He may have also thought that if he were to stay in and win, he would have passed the baton on to Harris in his second term. And so, given the pressure that he was indeed under, why not do it now?
Again, that all seems possible to me, but who knows? And it does seem more likely than a big money “coup.” And if the fat cats have so much power, and as AOC said, didn’t want Harris because she’d likely continue his progressive policies, well, how did he manage to get her in place, let alone so quickly, as the nominee?
You have nothing to prove to anyone here; some people are going to believe whatever narrative it is that makes them feel “superior,” because that’s their main purpose in being online in the first place.
And again, all this bullshit bickering is a waste of valuable time and energy.
That’s not directed at you, Torn; that’s addressing everyone and anyone who constantly acts like they are ‘the smartest in the room.’
There’s a massive amount of ego at work here, and it doesn’t help a fucking thing.
Definitely fair skepticism. I give them more weight than I usually do to anonymous sources, though, because they are both consistent with his public statements prior to dropping out and his actions in doing so, by working with Harris to ensure she got the nomination against the same interests that pushed him out. I don’t think that strategic maneuvering can be separated from his feelings about being pushed out. It was the natural extension of them.
With all due respect-- whatever. I just don’t think we can know enough at this point to spell out how it happened. I do think it’s good to be mindful of big money’s big influence, but also to allow for the possibility that Biden outsmarted them.
No same. There’s just no point in being online really. It’s too toxic and just makes everything harder.
But I think that is not ultimately a winning strategy in a battle of attrition either so idk.
If you can’t see the fear in your allies face and feel sympathy for them though? Am I wrong to question that as an ally openly. I believe not. But perhaps I am simply wrong to believe that.
I do believe there is and was a real element of actual betrayal in some aspects of that whole monthslong situation though. And I believe that in good faith while wanting Harris as President NOW THAT SHE IS ASSURED BY THE SUCCESSFUL ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORT OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
I agree with that completely. He did. They both did. It can be true that he was pushed out by big money donors and their pet politicians and that he outsmarted them. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
