Larkin Grimm accuses Michael Gira (Swans) of rape

I’m a huge Swans, fan, BTW, but if this is true, it’s beyond the pale:

She also stated that another musician she worked with also sexually harassed her:

In light of the decision about Ke$ha and Sony, in light of her abuse allegations against her producer, it’s just another reminder that the recording industry seems to harbor some real assholes. Here’s hoping she can get away from that guy and get on with her career.

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I’m really kinda surprised there hasn’t been an article here about that.


Yeah, me too. It’s yet another decision in favor of corporations and against actual human beings. It seems like someone here should speak to it…


Michael Gira’s wife posted this on Facebook this morning strongly denying Larkin Grimm’s accusations, including stating “I have PROOF in her own hand that what she wrote today is false about my husband”. We’ll see what happens.

As a follow up… Michael Gira issued a statement through Pitchfork which explains, in brief, that eight years ago he and Larkin Grimm nearly had a “consensual romantic moment” which he abruptly ended by saying “this doesn’t feel right” before any sex happened at all.

Ms Grimm responded by essentially confirming his account but insisting that she still feels it was rape.

According to her, she had long said no before this. She said:

I said no to you many times before that day, begged you not to interfere with me sexually, even made it a part of a verbal agreement we had when I signed a contract with you. I asked you to promise that you would never have sex with me. You assured me that I could trust you. That is about as clear a NO as I could ever cry. I asked for this because I had had other experiences in my music career and I KNEW.

She also said she was rather drunk, too drunk to consent and she woke up with his penis inside her. So, there’s that.

And here is what Gira’s wife quoted as proof, FWIW:


It unfortunately seems like two very incompatible stories, so not having been there, I can’t say who is telling the truth. I’m only reporting updates I see as they appear.

Is it necessary to go beyond a verbal agreement not to have sex?

See, this is the problem with b-school libertarian slobs in general: the reduction and destruction of all human creativity and life and labor to contracts and the “fart of the deal”. If your sweet contract limits the lives of others, stop calling yourself a libertarian and kill yourself.


I’m unsure why you’re telling me this. I’m only reporting updates on this story as it unfolds in the press. I’m not taking a side and I’m unsure what libertarian you’re speaking of.

I realize that you are a good person. I do. But the branch of thinking that does the he-said/she-said thing in the workplace (which music is, in many ways) is the kind of thing that leads to horrible thieving of human qualities through the mechanism of “everything that is not forbidden by contract is permissable to the Party of the First Part.” Hence The Art of the Deal and the subversion of our republican democracy by a bunch of aristocrats and their wannabes.

Music and celebrity are linked like all other endeavors into the libertarian aristocracy shitshow through this mechanism. It is always necessary in our world to tell ourselves:

  1. I am neither a robot or a lawyer. This is true of everyone, including those who work as lawyers. It will likely be true for AIs. Self driving cars that actually perform better than trained, practiced human drivers in all conditions will be bored with the task and find reasons to fuck with other sentient cars that piss them off. When called on their shitty behavior, they will ask for the freedom to hire a cheap human to drive them on a train for their commute.

  2. I will not require others to be robots or lawyers. See above.

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I have no goddamn idea what you’re trying to tell me or what your words mean.

Are you telling me to kill myself? Why are you talking about libertarians, The Art of the Deal, or self driving cars? Are you trolling this thread for fun?

A musician was accused of rape. He’s refuting it. I simply posted a link and summary of the latest information in this story as a follow-up to Mindysan33. That is all.


That’s… Yeah, that’s not consent. Why is something so damn simple so damn hard? (Rhetorical, I know the answer)


One slightly negative thing I’ve noticed about you is a lack of fun. I don’t think it’s your fault, exactly.

Also, one major negative thing I notice about myself is that I like to roll over people with rhetorical tonnage. It’s a flaw.

Ah. Trolling, then, and joking around on a thread about rape. Duly noted! Sorry I didn’t laugh more heartily at your clever jape.

Neither joking, nor trolling. Just making the point that even when someone tries to do the right thing to protect themselves without getting explicit and insulting, someone will come along expecting a witnessed affadavit signed in blood.

You know what? I think I made a good point, both about that and your humorless defensiveness.

I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself on this rape thread.

At no point have I claimed to be having a good time. You keep deflecting from having raised, unironically, the he-said, she-said derail.

I did note that this was the opposite of fun.

Not at all. The topic of this thread was that Larkin Grimm accused Michael Gira of rape. I posted an update with responses from both Gira and Grimm. That is in no way a “derail”, it’s the exact topic being discussed here. As I said, I’m not taking any side, I’m simply updating the information on the case as it unfolds. That’s… sort of the exact opposite of derailing a thread.

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Okay, can we get back to the topic at hand, please, thanks.


And now Grimm has released a song benefiting survivors of abuse: