Laughing Stanford rapist Brock Turner to be released after only 3 months in prison for rape

You must mean Cory Batey.

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Ah! This arcs back to the earlier post about cutting off fingers, right? So he gets docked, what, four? Five? Do they all have to come off the same hand, or is it every other? I confess ignorance of protocol appropriate to this sort of thing.

No, about what the specific causes were in any individual case.

All I’m doing here is applying occam’s razor, corruption/nepotism is simply a fair more parsimonious explanation for what’s gone on in this case than the unseeing hand of a naive interpretation of an unproven sociological theory (where weighted personal characteristics are calculated like a D&D character sheet and a simple calculation then tells us who the winners and the losers are).

I’m not denying that explicit ideologically held racism exists, and I’m not denying that subconscious racial biases also exist (as has been pretty well established via psychological experiments), and no doubt both of these factors are at play in many of the miscarriages of justice throughout the world, along with a myriad of contingent factors that could never hope to be encapsulated into one overarching social theory. But to think that this, or any other individual case, is any kind of exemplar of a naive theory of privilege is really what’s nucking futs.

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But of course the reason why we have had the privilege of growing up in a place where not answering violence with violence even seems like an option is because of a functioning justice system. If there is not justice when the wealthy and well connected commit crimes, they should expect to one day be at the receiving end of violence. I just wish they were smart enough to understand this.

Yeah, lawmakers outraged over the original decision have decided to make everything worse.

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“Paging Dr. Guillotine, to the white courtesy phone… Dr. Guillotine, to the white courtesy phone please.”

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Well you don’t get the privilege just by being white, silly! You have to work it. There are three things to remember:

  • Look normal. Dress like everybody else. A nice haircut helps but basically anything that isn’t queer looking. Be physically average. Don’t get tattoos. It is a good idea to be tall.
  • Practise the earnest white person face. Eyebrows raised, and pinched slightly inwards. Mouth neutral. It says, is everything OK? Can I help? I am your friend.
  • Cooperate, or at least pretend. Appear honest by saying things that are true and offering to help in useless ways. Would you like to see my ID? It expires soon. Be respectful, don’t be a smartass. Someone once told me, “if you fail the personality test, you’ll fail all the rest.” He’s been to prison a lot so he’s either a really good or a really bad source of advice on this.

Welcome to the internet, where the existence of Finland is suspect. Sure, you can never really know what’s in someone else’s head, but the event fits the pattern and sometimes social change needs a catalyst. It’s all an awful ugly mess and if progress can be made at the expense of some asshole being crucified then fuck him, my sympathy is spent. That the judge stood down is about the only decent thing to come out of all this.

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Because assuming race was a factor in the kid’s ridiculously lenient sentence would be so gosh-darn unfair. A real miscarriage of justice, even.

What I’d like to know is this: why do you seem comfortable in the assumption that wealth and connections were important factors in his sentencing but not race?

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Because non-wealthy and well connected white people get properly sentenced most of the time.

To me, this is an extension of how we value someone’s ability to play sports over the lives and well being of others. While white privilege plays a roll here, preferred treatment of athletes isn’t restricted to one or two races. The problem is systemic and pervasive. Nationwide, our schools are spending effort on games instead of minds. The indoctrination begins early and does not let up. We gather the children together for mandatory pep rallies and hold dances to celebrate the school’s team “homecoming”. We waste money, time, effort, and the education of our children in the name of sports. This case is simply a symptom of a larger problem that in my view has little to do with race.
Too often we see cover ups of athletes criminal activity including rape, molestation, assault, and even murder.

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Based on a previous study, it looks like unless a black man (in Virginia) earns at least $90,000/year, that man will be treated worse by the criminal justice system than if he were white and earning the same amount.

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sure, but I’m not disputing that there are such disparities.

The case of Corey Batey that @Missy_Pants linked to above shows a pretty big contrast depending on the color of the athlete. (TL;DR: almost identical crime committed by black 19-year-old star athlete at another Ivy-league school, radically different outcome.)

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No doubt you can find examples of punishment or passes given on both sides. We can focus on the race here and it should be discussed. But we also should note that white player Brandon Vandenburg seems to be facing the same or worse sentence in the same case as Corey Barey. The sentencing is set to be determined on Sept 30. Rather than cherry picking cases however should also consider the culture of school sports and how it teaches young people that if you can play, we will give you a pass for your indiscretions. I feel that no matter the race of these players, the culture around schools sports is the driving force behind these people thinking they can do what they please without repercussion.

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Leaving aside that I think probably everyone here has a different idea of what “properly sentenced” means, I can’t help but notice:

It seems like “most of the time” is basically an appeal to statistics, or at least it would be if you had any to show. So when you say:

Aren’t you:

?

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No.

Are you trying to claim that the sentence in this case is representative of sentences handed down to white people generally? Are you asking me to provide evidence to refute that? I don’t think you are. Again, I’m not refuting the stats that say that there is a disparity between black incarceration/sentencing and white incarceration/sentencing. I’m just talking about this particular case, and that it’s an outlier more likely explained by corruption/nepotism than any systemic racial bias.

Ok, so what makes you feel sure that it’s an outlier?

I’m saying it makes a good avatar for an important social issue.

Also:

Yes.

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I’ve already explained why: Laughing Stanford rapist Brock Turner to be released after only 3 months in prison for rape

I’ve asked you if you thought this was not the case, you didn’t answer, so I’m thinking you don’t have a problem with it. So not sure what you want from me here…

And as I clarified just now, when I said ‘properly’ there I meant relative to the sentence this guy got, again not discounting disparities by race generally.

I’m saying it makes a good avatar for an important social issue.

Even if it’s not true?

I don’t think corruption or nepotism applies in this case. Unless you’re using “corruption” in the same vein as the former Soviet Union. Because generally speaking, corruption is commonly accepted as a form of criminal dishonesty such as bribery. And it certainly wasn’t nepotism because the judge was not related to or knew the defendant. So no outlier. Just a really good example of systemic preferential sentencing brought on by factors such as ethnicity, gender, and education level.

So if you do have studies that show sentencing standards are absolutely fair given varibles such as ethnicity, gender, and education level, by all means bring them forward. Quit using the term outlier unless you can cite evidence supporting this.

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I meant corruption/nepotism in the general sense, not quid-pro-quo or relatedness; the guy has connections, parents probably run in the same circles as the judge etc.

And I’m not even saying that’s definitely what happened here, just that it’s more plausible.

So if you do have studies that show sentencing standards are absolutely fair given varibles such as ethnicity, gender, and education level, by all means bring them forward.

but I’ve never suggested that, and have been at pains to point out the opposite.

No. He’s not from the same area. He went to school in Palo Alto, but his parents live in a different state.

You have, actually, by referring to this case as an outlier. It makes it sound like you’ve seen evidence that this case isn’t typical.

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