I’ve asked you if you thought this was not the case, you didn’t answer, so I’m thinking you don’t have a problem with it. So not sure what you want from me here…
And as I clarified just now, when I said ‘properly’ there I meant relative to the sentence this guy got, again not discounting disparities by race generally.
I’m saying it makes a good avatar for an important social issue.
I don’t think corruption or nepotism applies in this case. Unless you’re using “corruption” in the same vein as the former Soviet Union. Because generally speaking, corruption is commonly accepted as a form of criminal dishonesty such as bribery. And it certainly wasn’t nepotism because the judge was not related to or knew the defendant. So no outlier. Just a really good example of systemic preferential sentencing brought on by factors such as ethnicity, gender, and education level.
So if you do have studies that show sentencing standards are absolutely fair given varibles such as ethnicity, gender, and education level, by all means bring them forward. Quit using the term outlier unless you can cite evidence supporting this.
I meant corruption/nepotism in the general sense, not quid-pro-quo or relatedness; the guy has connections, parents probably run in the same circles as the judge etc.
And I’m not even saying that’s definitely what happened here, just that it’s more plausible.
So if you do have studies that show sentencing standards are absolutely fair given varibles such as ethnicity, gender, and education level, by all means bring them forward.
but I’ve never suggested that, and have been at pains to point out the opposite.
Do you have statistics to back that up? If you do then you’re speculating based on statistics, which is what you’ve said we should be wary of. If you don’t have statistics to back that up then you’re just speculating wildly. Which is it? Is there an option C that I’ve missed?
well good thing I wasn’t claiming that was what happened then
…broader still then, call it general elitism. still more plausible than the simple fact that he was white.
hmm, at this point all I can say is that I’ve lost the thread of what the hell you’re talking about!
in terms of speculating, well… we’re all speculating here. at the end of the day none of us know why the judge made the decision he did. and as I stated before, you cannot work backwards from statistical averages to make claims about individual incidents. at best you can make a probabilistic argument, but even that requires far more evidence than simple correlations in a data set.
That you’re saying it’s more plausible even though you’re not saying it happened?
You forgot the wink, wink.
I’m saying get your ducks in a row (facts) before making an outrageous claim. It’s not even plausible since Brock Turner and his family live, like, eight states from California.
You keep throwing up terms and phrases like outliers, plausibility, and Occam’s Razor, but it doesn’t make your argument more sound.
I’ve not made any outrageous claims, not sure what you’re on about there. And actually, living eight states away doesn’t even rule out the possibility now that I think about it (it’s a small world).
I’m not throwing out terms and phrases, I’m criticising a faulty argument. I’m not even trying to make make definitive statements about the actual causes in this incident, I’m refuting the ability to make definitive claims of causation from nebulously defined invisible sociological forces.
Clearly this debate isn’t going anywhere at this point though, so I’m just going to leave it there.
Just that “more a case of wealth-and-connections-privilege here” is “drawing too many conclusions without some significant corroborating evidence.” I agree with a lot of what you’ve said and I’ll accept that your speculation is about as good as anyone’s, but I still don’t understand how you answered “no” to that.
What faulty argument? Multiple studies have shown that there’s a positive correlation between length of incarceration and ethnicity. They are not all specious.
I don’t think anyone has said that they know exactly why Judge Persky gave Brock Turner such a short sentence. However, what the judge (and many other judges) did was to give two ethnically different defendants of similar crimes two wildly different sentences. It happens all the time. Studies are there to examine relationships between variables. They aren’t there to explain individual cases.
And you’re right. As long as you believe that there are thousands of plausible reasons other than ethnicity, gender, and education that may explain sentencing discrepancies (i.e., white privilege), this conversation can’t move forward.
