Or that they think “it’s not so bad” as some of our fellow Americans clearly believe.
2 Likes
I suspect we are both speculating as to people’s understanding of what fascism means, a subject that is probably worthy of an academic study, or at the very least, a scientific poll.
1 Like
As much as I like most of the videos that the Lincoln Project is putting out right now and hope that they help take Trump and his enablers down, these cartoon interviewers do an excellent job showing that the Lincoln Project folks aren’t exactly good guys either:
Also, as was pointed out by someone earlier, Ben Howe is a jerk as well. But at least he’s gone now:
6 Likes
You might not be aware, but it already is. I also realize that ignoring the hard work people in the humanities is also quite fashionable, but it’s still valuable and worth seeking out.
One mandatory classic on the issue of fascism (and Stalinist communism):
5 Likes
Perhaps you misunderstood @skeptic, who was talking about …
… which is probably best treated as a different question from “what fascism means.”
1 Like
Yes. I can read, thanks.
6 Likes
I see.
So does Dr. Arendt’s 1951 book address what Americans in 2020 understand about what fascism means?
1 Like
It addresses the meaning of fascism. And our modern understanding is shaped by the past. If people don’t want to do the work of looking into terminology to advance their understanding they are then probably willfully remaining ignorant. There is no reason to NOT use accurate terminology because people refuse to either see what is right in front of them or to do a fucking google search on their phones.
This whole idea that we can’t use words that are accurate because people don’t understand them is just the stand in for demands for polite language of the right. We are done for if we can’t actually call things as they are. 
8 Likes
4 Likes
Except that, as you know, concepts as complex as fascism don’t have a universally accepted and authoritative meaning. Doing that google search suggests that some people, at least, disagree with you that the answer is as simple as you’re making it out to be. Moreover, as @skeptic’s comment suggests, this failure of a common definition is an ongoing problem. The meaning is dependent on context and subject to dilution by its use in bad faith.
That seems like it depends heavily on the purpose of the communication. If your purpose is to communicate only to people who have (at least roughly) the same level of education you have and who think (at least roughly) the way you do, then sure. If your purpose is to persuade, then using words that the people you’re trying to persuade understand differently than you do is misleading, ineffective, or both.
Think about, for example, the hand gesture that, until about 2 years ago, universally meant either “okay” or “three pointer,” but that now, according to some, means “white power.” Don’t we have some responsibility to take into account that third meaning when using (or not using) the gesture?
That’s great in an academic setting. Maybe even in an internet forum where we have discussions like this can can say “Go look it up!”. It’s not an especially useful position to take in political advertising where you have to use a language and style that people understand as they are, not as you’d like them to be.
1 Like
Look dude. I’m fucking exhausted, demoralized, angry, and frankly in pain with everything that is going on in the world, including the march of fascism around the world . Can you at least not talk down to me like I’m a child. Can I at least get treated with a tiny sliver of respect by you, even if you don’t agree with me. If you don’t think I’m worth you talking to me like an adult, then please put me on ignore.
6 Likes
I’m struggling with understanding how a generally accepted political term like fascism is easy to misunderstand by the general public. I don’t agree that it is.
4 Likes
There’s a big difference between a hand gesture, which has always had a vague meaning, and a word like fascism that has a discrete meaning. It’s meaning hasn’t changed; it’s just that some people are too lazy to use it properly or understand it.
Your “failure of a common definition” is an extension of the war against science. Just like “gravity”, fascism doesn’t give a shit if you believe in it, or if you are too lazy to give it the proper meaning. In the end, the result is the same whether you believe in it or not.
4 Likes
3 Likes
I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be a dick about this–it just seemed to me like you were snarking at somebody who didn’t really deserve it and who, I suspect, is pretty much in agreement with you. Who knows–maybe I was projecting. I certainly have that bad habit.
I’m exhausted and angry and demoralized and sad too. I think everybody here is. I know you mean well, and–even though it may not mean that much to you–I respect you a lot, which is why I respond to your comments in this thread and elsewhere.
You see that the first of these addresses the other two, right? The reason fascism is a confusing term to some isn’t because there’s anything inherently confusing about something that’s been explained in everything from textbooks to comic books. It’s because the fascists are deliberately muddying the waters by bad faith use. And they will do that with every word, until all you have left to call them are weak generic terms like “liar” or “plusungood”, if you surrender the accurate terms each time.
I see no reason to think that the common understanding of fascism is so uselessly nebulous as being claimed, except among people who are trying to hide what it really means. You should listen to the historian on this. They make a habit of studying such things, you know.
5 Likes
And you may be right. But I’ve discovered over the years that I’ve misunderstood political terms I thought I knew. I think you may be expecting people to be as smart and as knowledgeable as yourself, while I’m expecting people to be at least as dumb and ignorant as I am. But we are clearly both speculating at this point. And it is probably not an either or of which of us is right, but a spectrum. Without a scientific poll, though, I don’t know that we can actually know which of us may be closer to the facts of what the general population understands about the meaning of fascism.
1 Like
And this is the lazy part. If there really is a general misunderstanding of what “fascism” is, then we need to educate people to reach better understanding, not throw up our hands and say, “oh, well, let’s find another word for ‘fascism’ that people might understand.”
They absolutely deserved the snark, as they are actively contributing to the erosion of the meaning of the word.
2 Likes
I’m advocating for clear communication. I think explaining the term fascism, using accepted, historical definitions, can be an example of clear communication. But just using it regardless of whether you and your target audience understand it the same way is not,.
